Australia to send warship and Defence Force personnel to Middle East to support US

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Bush Lawyer, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't get so cocky if I were you. That's just the sort of thought process that can escalate matters.
     
  2. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    What treaty? You mean the personal agreement between Iran and Obama? Not sure how things work in your country but in the US an agreement doesn't become a treaty until ratified by the senate and Obama knew it would never pass given even Chucky boy thought it was a bad deal at the time.
     
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  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Alright, I won't be so cocky about it. How about this: Iran are terrified of this Australian ship. Please save us from it. We are ready to surrender and let America (and its Australian ally) dominate the waterways, airways, and everything else around us and even in our own country too. We promise, in the meantime, to let America organize piracy of our ships in the high seas, fly its drones into our airspace, complete its takeover of Iraq, resume its destruction of Syria, succeed in its attempts to disarm Hezbollah, support the genocide in Yemen, allow the ethnic cleansing in Palestine, the economic strangulation of Iran, and whatever else the neocons have been busy plotting, including supporting the most deranged jihadist groups in the Islamic world because these groups hate Iran more than anyone else, and we won't so much as say a word about it. With this ship added to your coalition against Iran, its game over for Iran.
     
  4. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to be that way, I'm old enough to remember when we were allies. There were Iranians at Lackland when I was in basic training. It was funny, being the lowest rank we had no stripes on our uniforms and some of the Iranian recruits assumed we were officers and nervously saluted us. A year or so later while at Keesler AFB I shot pool with some Iranians and I worked with an Iranian engineer at Westinghouse defense, although he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Maybe you will find this funny. One day I saw an ad on the bulletin board requesting a Persian for stud service. I knew they were talking about the cat, but I made a copy and put it in the Iranian's mail tray. The next day I walk by the bulletin board and see it was changed with huge bold letters CAT added to it. I have nothing against the majority of the Iranian people, I know many do not like the rule of the mullahs who cause most of the trouble. Hopefully this all blows over and there can be peace between us again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Cute story. But Iran prefers to chart its own path, built its own planes, have its own culture, and train its own pilots. Of course, for Iran to do this well, we do need to be in contact with the rest of the world, feel the challenge of competition, and have conditions for a genuinely free and fair competition of ideas, cultures, and civilizations -- and what is produced by them. In this equation, when America is ready to allow this and stops bullying Iran, I am the first to want to see us have good relations with it. I have nothing against much that is good in America, but everything against a lot that is rather awful and terrible. American foreign policy in particular is a disgrace to all the ideals that its founders had laid out for it, but even its domestic practices and policies are hardly something many would like to emulate these days.

    As for what Iranians want, there are 80 million of them. No one person speaks for all of them and they come in a variety of thoughts, backgrounds, intelligence, looks, and much more. But in Iran, ultimately, we do have an albeit imperfect system to give voice to what the people want. That system brings out tens of millions of Iranians to vote in various elections, including for president. And for now, even though I don't necessarily support him (and oppose him on many grounds as it relates to foreign policy in particular), this is the fellow who can claim to talk for the Iranian people. I certainly support him in these particular comments, even if I think his attempts at appeasement has already cost us dearly.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/irans-president-talks-useless-dealing-us-65114942
    Iran's president says 'talks are useless' in dealing with US
     
  6. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Iran's president doesn't hold any real power, the mullahs do. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad got a lot of press, but he couldn't do anything without the approval of the mullahs, but he did cause quite the stir with the wipe Israel out talk.
    http://www.jcpa.org/text/ahmadinejad2-words.pdf
    both countries have issues with foreign relations and there are a lot of articles that talk of Iranian state sponsorship of terrorism, so neither government is blameless.
     
  7. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The powers of the presidency in Iran are somewhat more limited than the presidency in the US, but ultimately both have the power of the bully pulpit. The president in Iran, however, is not remotely as powerless as you imagine: he controls the government's budget (the purse), appoints the ministers that oversee the management of Iran's government bureaucracy and all the laws and policies they are to implement; he chairs Iran's Supreme National Security Council where ultimately all important matters affecting foreign policy are decided (even though the decisions of the council are only ratified once approved by the Supreme Leader); he also has a similar role chairing Iran's cultural council. The regular armed forces in Iran are managed and directed by a ministry he oversees and the same with Iran's national police force. The one organ typically under the executive branch that he doesn't really control (but he does have influence over through the Supreme National Security Council directives which are binding on it), is the Iranian revolutionary guards (and Basij) forces. And, to be honest, based on experience that shows that elected officials can more easily be influenced by transient or even corrupt influences, that is not entirely without justification. If not for the revolutionary guards, Iran would probably be as toothless as many of its enemies aspire and prefer.

    The "mullahs" refers to Iran's clergy and while they do have influence, you are overstating their influence. There are "mullahs" who are as powerless over things in Iran as the average person in Iran. But those particular "mullahs" who are elected to the Assembly of Experts (which appoints and can even dismiss the Supreme Leader), or are appointed to the Guardians Council, or serve in various other functions and positions in Iran's government, including many in the judiciary, certainly have power. Some more than others. The one among them that holds the most power is Iran's Supreme Leader, but even his powers are ultimately checked by the fact that his dictates are in most cases ones that need to be applied by folks who aren't directly answerable to him and who might not be quite interested in those dictates. And by the fact that his dictates, if they run very much against popular currents, will see his standing and power diminished as well.

    The system in Iran, to be sure, is not perfect. Far from it. But its faults aren't the ones you often hear in the West.
    The attempts to paint him as a "dictator" were as ridiculous as to suggest he was powerless. He had the same type of powers as Iran's current president.
    Even if he had actually said that, as opposed to a more accurately translated "Israel will disappear from the pages of history", it still wouldn't be anything to cause such a stir in a world that wasn't dominated by certain special interest groups you seem to support.
    What America calls "terrorism" is usually a terrible and ugly joke. Iran often supports the most worthy, and popular, groups within their own communities. And these are groups that are actually fighting the real terrorists, be it the ones who deliver their terror through bombs and missiles dropping from the air, or ones who do it otherwise in the name of deranged Sunni jihadist ideologies. When it comes to its foreign policy in particular, Iran has little to apologize for, especially when it comes to its actions the past 20 years. There were instances in the past that Iran did engage in behavior that I would have also considered terrorism, albeit at a much smaller scale than the terrorism practiced against it, but what Iran has focused on is a far more effective and justifiable course of conduct. It supports popular groups who are fighting terrorism, foreign invasion, and occupation, with those forces directing their fire and focus on the kind of targets most military organizations do.
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is another example of the arrogance of people of the US. They only see themselves. No one else exists.

    No it was not a deal between Iran and Obama

    It was a Treaty between the US, UK, France, Germany, the EU, China and Russia and voted for by every member of the UN Security Council.

    The US position on this was clearly that the Trump Regime wanted Iran to build nukes so left it. Other countries did not decide to join America so America misused its position as being the world reserve currency to force them to comply. The US is currently trying to act as World Dictator.
     
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  9. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Since it was not ratified, it was not a treaty between the US and the rest of them. I can't see how you come up with the conclusion that Trump wants Iran to build nukes. Why?
     
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  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe you are wrong there. Something to do with your obligations as part of the UN. However, reality is that there was a get out clause which the US could have used. It was possible for you to get out. I remember reading some of your Universities talking about this. Possible they thought, but no President would do it because of the come back.

    That you did have a right to do and it was a weakness of the Treaty that allowed you to do it but as Zarif said there was so little trust that the Treaty had built into it all kinds of things for dealing with various outcomes - Iran's recent gradual pulling back from the conditions being one.

    What makes the US a danger to democracy and to sovereignty of the rest of the world, is her demanding that other countries did the same or it would sanction them as well as things like its current intent on not letting the renamed Grace 1 finish its mission. The US had no right to do that. It is doing that by abusing the dollar's position as reserve currency and trying to be dictator of the world. Clearly the rest of the world will change this position asap.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Now you are being childish. I realize you are paid to post propaganda on the forum but I doubt your boss would like this post.
     
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  12. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Tell my boss that I am still waiting for the check in the mail:)
    The closest to a boss that I have is my wife, and even she doesn't boss me around that much:)
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You are a lucky man.
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Most of us are lucky in some things and not so lucky in others. I have my things to complain about too.
     
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think we were allies only when we had installed the Shah over there. That was probably the same time you're talking about.
     
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  16. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, we're patrolling the Straits on behalf of other countries ourselves. While we appreciate the assistance I hope the countries who need it will be expressing their gratitude to you (and us) themselves.
     
  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The United States played a role in the coup that unseated Dr. Mossadegh, but I don't think its helpful to overstate the issue either. I know it is very much in vogue to do so, and something certain quarters like to make too much of in Iran as well as in the US, but the issues between Iran and the US are really no longer affected by that issue.
    I think the "myths" listed in this piece aren't entirely without basis, even though the source isn't one that I would often cite.
    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/six-myths-about-the-coup-against-irans-mossadegh-11173
     
  18. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What are you talking about? That was a fine piece of propaganda. If he doesn't have a job at PressTV yet they should hire him. :smile:
     
  19. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't think it's helpful, or honest, to pretend that EFFECTIVELY we did not install the Shah. We, our CIA, has done that all over the globe for decades. Maybe the only one to fail is the current situation in Venezuela with Guaido.
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The "credit" for the coup that belongs properly to the Americans and the British is not their amateurish plan named Operation Ajax (which actually failed) but the couple of years of effort by the Brits (later joined by the Americans) to use economic warfare, bribery, and a lot of propaganda, to create divisions within the camp that had supported Dr. Mossadegh. And to take away from the huge following he had started with but which had dwindled as these efforts by the US and the Brits began to take their toll. Otherwise, in a more immediate sense, Dr. Mossadegh fell from power because he didn't have a group that was strong or popular enough behind him to stand up to both the clerical leaders who had become disenchanted with him (in part due to British machinations, planting false stories about Mosssadegh's relationship with the Tudeh or communist party in Iran) and the Shah (who at the time wasn't an unpopular figure and had the trust and loyalty of the military and a good chunk of even the population behind him).
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  21. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everyone relates to their own, thus the English speaking nations will always support one another right or wrong since there's an element of trust between them. It's normal, but it's not just the English speaking people. Other nations similar in language and culture will also relate to one another and distrust those who are dissimilar. It's something that should be taken into account by our foreign policy makers, but they don't.



    There is no way the US will get into a war. If Trump did, then he can say good bye to being president in the next election. What our government does do though, is destroy nations with sanctions/embargoes, bullying, protests, and supporting terrorism when possible.

    Russia does intervene and does stop us from our excesses - but there's only so much they can do.
     
  22. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    It is good that the Trumpocity has not completely crapped on Australia so that they are still behaving like allies do even though under the reign of Trumpocity we do not behave like allies with our "allies".
     
  23. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Uhhh, what countries?





    [​IMG]
    I'm uncle Sam I am I am,
    and here to do whatever I can
    to save you blokes from crafty folks
    like me of course - Jeannette


     
  24. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    India sent some of their navy months ago, remember?

    With Aussie and India navy presence, those bad guys must be so very afraid.
    :rolleyes:
     
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  25. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course there in alignment with the US and other democracies, and have been for a very long while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

    Of course Iran can also get their Allies involved.
     

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