Humans Will Never Colonize Mars

Discussion in 'Science' started by Lil Mike, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I find it likely humans will do both Robotic and manned adventures as we progress. Just as we once had scouts(Louis and Clark), we now have robotic probes to tell us where to go. There are some things that require interaction in real time Space station asteroid mining is inevitable I believe and will eventually lead to living in space....Mars and other planetary bodies will become resources in time vs. homes.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, today we don't even have the will to oppose Russia's cyber assaults. A Russian oligarch bought Mitch McConnell the largest aluminum plant to be built in the US, and McConnell is making every effort within his power to protect Russia from all US opposition to Russia's assaults on our democracy.

    So, you see that the major difference between the Moon and Russia is that Russia (and other earthly opposition) can change strategies in order to defeat us.

    And, the Moon just sits there.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree here.

    I'm sure we'll have a justification for having humans in space at some point in time.

    I'd like to see that happen when we have a mission that requires a human for some reason. Today, we have presidents making statements about where, when and how to put humans in space, and those ideas are so amazingly unjustified that they change from administration to administration - basically thrashing NASA.

    So, I'm not saying no space cowboys ever. I'm just saying we should wait until we have an actual justification. After all, a manned mission can not help but SLOW our exploration right now, as such moves are planned to suck resources from other missions.
     
    tecoyah likes this.
  4. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Likely NASA will stick to SLS/Orion and avoid massive human projects, leaving that to Private space companies....there mat be a bit of overlap. SLS is probably being created for heavy lift space station construction eventually and the quiet mini space shuttle missions are involved as well.
     
  5. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    SLS cannot be justified without a manned exploration program. And IIRC the U.S. has no intentions of constructing another space station.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No evidence which is why I stated 'I suspect'...
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This could be true at least for a while. Left on its own, NASA would probably be more oriented to unmanned exploration as they tend to weigh proposals based on scientific benefit.

    My understanding is that NASA has to build SLS as it is a law passed by congress. As far as I know, there is only one mission planned for it - the mission to the Moon. SpaceX, Atlas V and others are far cheaper and sufficient for exploration of the solar system as well as telescope launches.

    SpaceX is working on its heavy lifter, putting into question what else the SLS will be used for.
     
  8. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    WillReadmore likes this.
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, I don't see any indication that the SLS will be used for anything other than manned flights that go beyond Earth orbit - like the Moon, Mars, etc.. And, there are other options even for that.

    One probably can't say there are "intentions" to build a station of any kind. But, there are groups working on various problems that would apply to surviving in places not on Earth's surface.
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Earth is a relatively young planet so any planet with more than 3.5-4.0 billion years of existence might have some mighty microbes as well.

    Do we know yet about any dangers from bacteria and other microbes or viruses escaping from ice melt here on Earth?
     
  11. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    https://www.space.com/41763-nasa-lunar-orbiting-platform-gateway-basics.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    WillReadmore likes this.
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Great - I hadn't seen that clear of a definition.

    I like the space station idea. I'm not excited about the Moon part, and I wonder if lunar orbit is really where we want this station. There are advantages in being close to Earth, I guess. But, it seems close and gravitationally affected by Earth for uses such as ferrying asteroid material, launching to deeper space and for being a space communications hub.

    I hope NASA's science budget doesn't get gutted over this.
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This is just a stepping stone to what will come. Once NASA fully begins to partner with commercial space companies (think SpaceX on steroids) this little waystation will be considered todays covered wagon.
     
  14. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I've seen lots of the details of this "way station" station concept. Sounds to me like mainly something for the contractors to do. It advances the goals of sending a manned mission to Mars none whatsoever.
     
  15. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A Mars colony

    [​IMG]
     
  16. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Lack of imagination and limited research often limit the understanding.of possibilities.
     
  17. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    9,298
    Likes Received:
    4,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We should be pouring cash into making uninhabitable areas of THIS planet habitable, before we go trying to **** up another planet!
     
  18. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,312
    Likes Received:
    6,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why? It isn't like we need the room.
     
  19. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    9,298
    Likes Received:
    4,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd rather see that researched than planetary colonization... **** we know more about space, than our deep oceans FFS.
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Amen.

    We're seeing deterioration in our seas and agriculture - stuff we and others actually depend on, stuff that our DoD sees as a national security risk due to the possibilities of failed states and the movement of hungry people.

    NASA studies of Earth from space is a branch of federal investment that is actually used by farmers in the US and other countries.

    We need to watch how this goes just to make sure that NASA science objectives survive in the face of the massive costs of humans in space.

    That's especially true given the fact that this administration is not even slightly interested in information concerning Earth as a human habitat.
     
    Just_a_Citizen likes this.
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In order to make more of Earth 'habitable', most humans need to adopt an attitude about sustainability. For example burning fossil fuels is not very sustainable but good luck across the world making this a critical change component. We can develop more arable land to produce food products but we need more water and we need appropriate weather. I've traveled most areas of Colorado, for example, which is similar to most rural areas of the USA, and question why does everyone live in Denver? The answer is in most of rural USA, there simply are not many good options to work and live...what needs to be done to redistribute people into the rural areas? Lastly, most all of this falls into the category of asking people to be proactive...to invest in 'their' future, but being 'proactive' is one of those areas we typically and miserable fail. What can society do to communicate ideas to people, to gather support allowing taxation and spending, many times in politically controversial issues, to force real change?
     
    Just_a_Citizen likes this.
  22. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    9,298
    Likes Received:
    4,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Agree 100%.

    Still, focusing on Earth makes more fiscal sense.
     
  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes because fact is we have no other viable choice where to live. But I fully support continued research into everything not of this Earth. Colonizing Mars should not be a goal but learning more about Mars is important...
     
  24. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    9,298
    Likes Received:
    4,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I agree.
     
  25. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Unfortunately there seems to be nothing we can do, there is a very rich and powerful Anti-Science mentality that controls American politics and will prevent anything from damaging their benefactors. If the United States does not lead the movement to change it will not happen. Our own human failings will inevitably come to roost and it wont be pretty.
     

Share This Page