Another mass shooting deserves a better answer.

Discussion in 'United States' started by kungfuliberal, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    The 2A has nothing to do with hunting and has everything to do with defending oneself from enemies foreign and domestic and for overthrowing a tyrannical government.

    The 2A is needed more today than it was in 1791.
     
  2. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    We will fight liberals every damn day because if we don't liberals keep infringing on our rights.
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True. So why arent the gun controllers trying to convene a concon?
     
  4. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    I will fight only the dumb ideas y'all come up with.
     
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Compared to what, precisely? What clear and concise actions of treason are the actions of Donald Trump being compared to?

    Does threatening the united state supreme court with repercussions for how they rule on a particular case constitute an act of treason, since it is an individual branch of government?
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Such was proven to be factually incorrect in the Pulse nightclub shooting. Even when the perpetrator suffered a firearm malfunction, and had to pause to look up a video of how to fix the malfunction, the victims made no effort to retaliate or escape. They continued to remain frozen in place, simply waiting to be murdered.
     
  7. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Such rules of engagement do not apply if the government is no longer playing by the established rules, and instead has determined that its own interests are more important than serving the people.

    It is not an act of mutiny to kill the captain of a military naval vessel and assume command, if said captain has ordered a collision course that will destroy the ship and kill everyone that is onboard.
     
  8. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Under what standard of law in the united states does personal and self defense amount to law enforcement? How is it vigilantism to defend oneself against an individual that is making an active attempt at causing them harm?
     
  9. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The united states being a nation of laws only applies to those who actually survive long enough to make it to a courtroom for trial. The united states being a nation of laws does the public no good if they are being murdered by those the government simply will not remove from society on the basis of the threat they pose.

    So long as there are career criminals who are continually released back into society, despite proving time and again that they simply will not abide by the rules of society, the people are left with no recourse except to defend themselves against whatever threat presents itself, and make use of lethal force if ultimately necessary.

    Such is the situation without firearms, where physical strength determines everything. Such was the case of how society was run before the development of firearms, when the sword was the measure of power and could only be wielded by the physically fit who spent years learning how to. Firearms serve as the equalizers, where the physically strongest are no longer able to dictate how things will be, as strength is rendered meaningless.
     
  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Why did such not work out in the Pulse nightclub shooting? Even when the perpetrator suffered a firearm malfunction, and had to look up a video on his phone to figure out how to fix the malfunction, the victims did absolutely nothing. They did not retaliate, they did not flee, they simply cowered in place and did not even move. They simply waited for their murderer to resume murdering them at his leisure.
     
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    A great deal. None of their members were killed, they were found not guilty, the government itself was rebuked in a court of law for how poorly they managed the entire event, and were barred from attempting future prosecution of the Bundy group.
     
  12. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    How many millions to billions of dollars would have to be expended in the course of attempting such? How many individuals would have to be prosecuted for felony offenses, based entirely on the fact that they did not surrender what was their legally-owned property when they were ordered to do so? How many private individuals will wind up being murdered by those who refused to abide by the laws and continue to remain armed with prohibited weapons they acquired illegally? How many private individuals will wind up being killed by agents of their own government for failing to comply? How much more overcrowding of prisons will the united states be forced to experience?

    These and countless other questions must be asked in order to determine if attempting to "save a life or two" is truly worth all that would have to be done to try and get to that point, when there is absolutely no way of proving whether or not such endeavors would yield a return on the investment.

    The empty appeal to emotion presented on the part of yourself demonstrates a recognition of the inability to defend the presented position from a logical standpoint.
     
  13. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    There are times when there are no solutions to be had to a particular problem. Not simply no easy solutions, but rather no solutions whatsoever. This is especially so when the problem at hand attempts to deal with what is ultimately an integral aspect of the human species.

    For whatever reason, the human species seems hardwired at the genetic level to kill itself off, in whatever numbers possible, in whatever manner possible. It is the only species that demonstrates such a willingness to end its own existence. For all of the supposed intelligence it possesses, killing itself seems to be the only thing the species understands. Every technological development it has ultimately put forth, has in some way or another been directly relating to the more efficient killing of one another. It is obsessed with finding differences, reasons, and just plain excuses to justify killing specific members of itself. If matters of religion and race were not available for being used as the basis of genocide, it would be matters of height and eye color.

    The problem at hand is ultimately human nature itself. And short of a mass extinction event that serves to wipe out the entire human species, the problem will never be solved or otherwise truly addressed, simply because no one is willing to answer the difficult questions.

    A species that is obsessed with tearing itself apart simply cannot. Nor should it be. The species that looked at the prospect of nuclear energy and went about determining how to use it for more efficient killing because conventional munitions were not effective enough, simply does not deserve to be saved from itself.

    What are these aforementioned ways being referred to on the part of yourself?
     
  14. DixNickson

    DixNickson Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a distinction between a right and a privilege.

    I would rather we repeal all the gun law/regulations that have failed to prevent these horrific homicidal acts than add more restrictions that only affect the law abiding and provide government with ever expanding power/private citizen's information. Laws only hold those accountable who are convicted of violating it. Laws do not stop the criminal act, laws simply identify what that act is.

    It is true that yelling "Fire!" in a theater that is not on fire may well constitute a criminal act. We need to recognize the fact that free speech is not restricted prior to that utterance/act, however many gun laws make a crime of simply possessing a firearm (2A right) and not committing any act with it. We have free speech and cannot be convicted for having that right and yet government makes it a crime to keep and bear arms (not use them unlawfully) and make that right a crime. If more free speech (not less) is the answer to the free speech dilemma then the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    I suspect the root cause of these murderous events lie in the human heart and mind/human nature and specifically mental illness, lack of empathy/sympathy (not the firearm or weapon of choice nor the law abiding citizens for that matter). Why is this manner of addressment not pursued? Perhaps because this would take the focus off of reducing or eliminating the citizen's Second Amendment right. Never waste a crisis to further empower the government.
     
    MolonLabe2009 likes this.
  15. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    First off, excuse the misspelling of license.

    Secondly, WTF are you rambling on about? My proposal is simple...license and registration for ALL gun ownership in ALL 50 States. This means gun shows and private owners just can't sell to any yahoo they personally deem worthy, because if the recipient doesn't want to known to own that gun, they dare not engage in the sale. And please quote directly where I'm against free mandatory classes in gun ownership? If you can't, then you're confusing your own rhetoric.

    Oh, and FYI....you have to register to vote in all 50 states or prove that you are a citizen of the US and that state before you vote. So your comparison fails miserably.
     
  16. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    Man, that was a load of horse hockey you just dumped. Bottom line: the OP flat out states that it's proposal won't stop all crimes of this manner, but will go a great ways in reducing them. Personally, I prefer a much less rate of mass shootings than the over 200 we've had this year alone!

    And please spare us all this much parroted right wingnut BS about gun laws infringing upon rights...or that owning a care is a privilege and therefore not comparable. Bottom line: cars are licensed and registered, as pertaining to accidents, theft, criminal behavior. So why shouldn't a machine whose primary purpose is to kill not put under the same requirements? If you sell your car but don't transfer ownership and that car is in an accident or used in the perpetration of a crime...YOU are initially on the hook for that until it can be sorted out in court. So if you sell your gun and transfer ownership, any crime or accident that involves that weapon DOES NOT fall upon you.

    No 2nd Amendment right is reduced or diminished, as you can buy a plethora of available weapons so long as you abide by state and federal law.
     
  17. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    Translation: this joker has heartburn over something that has NOT happened in mine or his lifetime despite standard gun regulations, the Brady Bill or the 1994 AWB. "confiscation" occurs is the gun owner has purchased weapons or owns weapons without proof of purchase/license that were NOT ALLOWED BY LAW.

    Heartburn is just insipidly stubborn.
     
  18. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    yep, but Americans usually use it with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

    Bottom line: you STILL have no logical or rational rebuttal to the OP proposal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  19. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    I highlighted a part of my previous response that should clarify things some. Had the OP proposal been in place, that "seller" would've been most reluctant to do so....unless he is in the business of making and selling weapons to anyone with the cash, no questions asked. That would make him a criminal as well, instead of just some gun happy stupe making a quick buck.
     
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, not at all like cars, is my point. You want way more regulation on guns than there is on cars, even though driving results in way more death.

    If you werent voicing opposition to my requirement that mandatory training be free of charge, readily available and passable by attendance only, then I misunderstood you. My mistake.

    That wasn't my question.

    Do you consider such ID requirements on voting to be an infeingement on or suppression of voting rights?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  21. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    The link PRECISELY details why the NRA talking point of CCW and Open Carry drastically lowering crime rates is not true. That you ignore such is irrelevant, because you can't logically disprove the FACTS.
    Read what I wrote carefully and comprehensively....or go back and read your responses. Like it or not, you are (once again) trying to pass of guess work as fact. You fail.
     
  22. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    But not so gullible.
     
  23. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    Okay, let's just look at the sheer absurdity of your "logic"; 20 people killed by OTHER INDIVIDUALS with handguns equates with 20 people killed by ONE individual with an assault weapon. 20 DIFFERENT people ACROSS A STATE OR THE COUNTRY killed by 20 other INDIVIDUALS AT DIFFERENT DATES AND LOCATIONS equates with 20 different people being killed by ONE INDIVIDUAL in ONE location on ONE day.

    And do stop parroting that NRA hair splitting lie about gun deaths since the AWB sunset, because neither side of this debate can make a solid claim https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban-work/

    But one thing is certain....mass shootings have increased since 2004, although not as wildly exaggerated as some are prone to do https://www.politifact.com/florida/...ss-shootings-increase-200-percent-assault-we/
     
  24. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    and since no gun regulation law has stopped you from purchasing from a wealth of variety in weapons, your right HAS NOT BEEN INFRINGED.

    Once more for edification: Regulation of gun laws is a state right, and can be also done via amendments to the Constitution, which is a right of Congress.
     
  25. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    insipid stubbornness does not require or is indicative of gullibility....it does, however, lend to willful ignorance.
     

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