Rue, Britannia <<Moderator's Warning Issued>>

Pence is like a good puppy. He will do whatever Trump asks him to do.
But your right about Congress.

 

Joining the common market (European Community) was decided by Parliament by a vote of 365-244 in 1971. We joined officially in 1973.

It was decided that a referendum should be held to see if we should remain members in 1974 after Labour had stated that they wanted to renegotiate the terms of our membership.
The vote was held the next year and the result was 67.2 in favour of staying to 32.8 against.

Do you ever think to check before you say something that could make you look silly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum#Result

 

Come on man, everyone loves Germans, but most people are very cautious, so they revolt if they see that threat to their independence comes from Germany.

 

So you say Germany should stop having own interests and simply kneel infront UK?

You do realize that free movement of good AND people is a core interest of Germany?

 

except what you are saying here is simply not true. Britain had an opt out clause with respect to the EU and refugees..

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-cant-be-forced-accept-more-refugees/

http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/05/can-uk-opt-out-of-mandatory-eu-refugee.html

Britain only agreed to take 20,000 Refugees from people already in camps who it would personally choose. Further it would accept those refugees over 5 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-20000-syrian-refugees-david-cameron-confirms

Any refugees the UK was to take was a result of pressure from the British Parliament. Nothing to to with the EU.

Germany does not run the EU.

 

I think probably you got this idea from this

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-24/how-brexit-campaign-used-refugees-scare-voters

Nigel Farage copies Nazi propaganda tactics as he unveils 'racist' poster showing Syrian refugees

 

Shared custom's posts, free movement for ROI citizens, special trade status between the 2 countries.

 

Yes, all baseless conspiracy theories.

 

Yes and so what? What has that got to do with Germany starting WW1?

 

The customs posts would be targets, and also checks would need to be made to differentiate between ROI citizens and others, and those criss crossing the border without any kind of 'special' registration would need to be challenged. In those circumstances the Good Friday Agreement would be ignored. There are those who cross the border several times in a short journey, and of course those who have property spanning the border.
I believe that you desire a solution, but I believe your suggestions will result in violent conflict.

 

Ireland is EU member state. Free movement for irish means also free movment to all EU citizens. There cant be special trade between Ireland and UK, Ireland is EU member and trade must be dexided by all members.

 

We already cleared that Germany joined WW I over one week after it started.

 

Some updates from today

Boris has met with the Leo Vadarkar who said

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...082514879f09eb#block-5d7632858f082514879f09eb

Boris has said that he does want a deal

Farage claims Boris is after May's deal. (A lot of people have suggested this is likely how it will end.)

Boris has confirmed he will not be writing a letter asking for further time.

and he intends shutting down Parliament again this evening.
Further updates at link which all the quotes come from https://www.theguardian.com/politic...9f09eb#block-5d7632858f082514879f09eb[/quote]

 

I guess the 12 day period between October 19th and 31st will be quite entertaining to observe.
I’m going to stack up on popcorn.

 

I think this is Boris's best chance of acheiving Brexit before the deadline.
A weary Parliament may well approve a slightly tweaked version of it in order to fullfil the spirit of the leave vote whist avoiding the damaging effects of a no-idea Brexit.
Slightly hypocritical considering Boris rejected the withdrawal agreement twice but he will be able to keep his promise to leave before the 31st of October.
It's a risky option though as it will result in Farage opposing the Tories for all seats in the coming election.
Splitting the vote on the right can only hurt the Conservative party.
Boris's desire for a early election may well disappear after leaving the EU but that leaves him with a lame-duck minority government unable to pass any bills in the house without opposition support.
Honestly I don't think Boris had any plan B once Cummings's ploy to suspend Parliament failed.
All these theories being put out are just trying to gauge the opinion of the public IMO. We are being used as a giant focus group for any crackpot plan they can come up with.

 

I have given that some thought. This situation is just so unusual it is difficult to guess but I think that would only be likely to happen if it was believed the EU were not going to give another extension...

This is interesting and obviously something he or Cummings will be considering. A new Poll has come out suggesting that if there is an election after 31st October and we have not come out, Corbyn is in the lead - only by 2% so nothing really...but...

https://www.euronews.com/2019/09/08...tion-if-held-after-brexit-deadline-poll-finds

which of course would mean he would even more want an election or deal by midnight 31st October. Farage was suggesting he would do a deal with the Tories yesterday but given that today he is thinking Boris is going after May's deal, that could fall apart so the result of an election more difficult to guess. I am sure Boris would want a tweeked May deal. I am less sure the hard Right of the Tories, Labour and the SNP would want to help...except if that was necessary to avoid no deal and people seem to believe that is covered.



Tonight, I think at the moment there is a debate about allowing us to have access to Yellowhammer, the no deal papers. They are also wanting to know how the business of prorogation which Grieve said 'smacked of scandal' came about and Bercow is resigning no later than 31st October but sooner if a General Election is called.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08143ee1ae311c#block-5d7681b48f08143ee1ae311c

 

The vote demanding the Government disclose all private messages and all electronic communication concerning Yellowhammer and prorogation has passed by 9 votes.

 

In our first past the post Parliamentary system it is very difficult to predict election results based on simple polling.
A 20% share of the vote for the Lib's spread across the country won't necessarily result in more seats than The Brexit Party with a high concentration of its 17% support in the North East, for example.

The release of Yellowhammer would finally put to bed Rees Mogg's project fear narrative. His comparison of the doctor who helped compile it with the doctor struck off for falsely linking the MMR jab with autism was outrageous slander and only Parliamentary immunity saved him from prosecution.

The loss of Bercow is a blow. His defence of Parliamentary proceedure, chastisement of rowdy MPs and his sense of humour will be sorely missed. It was noticable that the majority of those who stood to thank him for his service to the House were from the opposition bench despite him being a Conservative MP. Hopefully his replacement will be of equal standard.

It's worth noting that Farage only offered a non-aggression pact with the Tories if Boris managed to get a ''clean break'' Brexit. Clean break is the latest euphemism for no-deal or no-idea (as James O'Brien calls it) Brexit. Otherwise he has warned that he will contest all 650 seats.
No-deal's only chance now seems to lie with an EU rejection of an extension (ironically giving control to Brussels over UK Sovereignty).

The only positive for Boris is the high court in London's support of the Edinburgh ruling that the suspension of Parliament was lawful.

 

will the government comply ?
Probably not

 

Probably not while Parliament is prorogued.

 

very good point! I cannot see them giving over anything 'private' voluntarily. It would presumably mean letting people look at wherever they are held. The extent to which people can still hide or change these things I do not know but suspect it is quite a lot.

 

Speaking of peace and Ireland

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...lice-attacked-with-petrol-bombs-38481033.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49641197

That is tonight. I was listening to Parliament when someone said it was fine for them to be talking while petrol bombs were going off in Derry. There were also three nights of same in August.

There have also been a few disturbances in the last few weeks in Glasgow with marches for a United Ireland being met by orange unionists - described as riots by the papers but people there saying that is a gross exaggeration.

 

But, but...leave means leave.
That's just project fear.

 

I've never watched as much Parliament as I have in the last couple of weeks.
It has been both interesting and entertaining watching so many unusual and unprecedented events unfold.
Tonight's suspension was another example.
There were some heated exchanges between the Speaker and a couple of MPs which were not particularly rare but amusing none the less.
But most fascinating were the breaches of tradition in the ceremonial procession to the House of Lords.
Normally there is a only handful of MPs and they all accompany the Speaker as he goes with the Mace to tell the Lords that the current session has ended.
Tonight the Commons was full to the brim but the whole opposition bench refused to go in protest of the abnormal suspension.
Then the Conservative MPs refused to return to the Commons for the traditional trooping out and handshaking with the Speaker.
The commentators on the Parliament channel were at a loss for words for what was happening.
All on top of earlier proceedings which resulted in yet another failed government bill (another attempt to get an early election).
Boris is now 0 for 6.

 

Well, he did win suspension. Can’t disregard that.
At least it will shut up the parliament for about 5 weeks.