Should people who cannot afford life saving treatments be left to die?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Sep 9, 2019.

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Should people who cannot afford life saving treatments be left to die?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, maybe it depends on the cost.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  2. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    These are all policy decisions, the virtue of which is in governmental action, is that each generation will make them with different priorities, science, and perspective on death, pain, and what represents a sustainable investment. Profit alone will not be the only value on which these calls will be made.
     
  3. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Naw. It's very simple: when government controls healthcare, those whom government approves of or needs will get the care. Everybody else can drop dead.
     
  4. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    There is a solution to that 'who' problem in the equal protection clause. There is none if private insurance does the same, unless that same government writes a statute to ensure differently!
     
  5. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Yet the equal protection clause doesn't protect people who are the victims of reverse discrimination. Clearly there's a flaw in the system....
     
  6. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    You need to read the language and the appellate decisions better.
     
  7. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    First off, you need to support your claims with examples. Second, are we talking about the Constitution or about decisions made about what it says? Because courts are always finding ways to make the Constitution a "living document". Hence, you don't want to trust your healthcare to a government that can decide you don't qualify for equal protection.
     
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  8. Smartmouthwoman

    Smartmouthwoman Bless your heart Past Donor

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    If they showed up at a charitable facility, money would be a moot point. I feel sorry for people who think only the govt can help us. :(
     
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  9. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Well you are going to have to trust your health care to something and we know we can't trust it to private insurance companies because for every ill you can conceive the corporate policy decisions developed by their actuators, their bean counters and their lawyers are far more fickle, far more arbitrary, and far more discriminatory than any government statute or regulation can manage. Thank goodness for government 'red tape' because it at least provides the consumer with enough notice, indirect voice to stall what government does!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  10. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Private industry can't afford to treat people for free, and governments don't have the money to budget for it, but charities can do it! I'm certain that charities can help some people, but that's not how the OP's extreme hypothetical was phrased. You have to assume a person who will need heroic treatment to save his life, so it would take very skilled doctors and extremely expensive treatment. Not what you're likely to find in a charity hospital.
     
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  11. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    The best answer is private industry with government oversight like we had before Obamacare. The very best answer is to let technology replace a lot of what is done by expensive human beings with automation. That's the answer, but it's another 10 to 20 years away.
     
  12. Smartmouthwoman

    Smartmouthwoman Bless your heart Past Donor

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    Lol, you mean like St Jude's? Or the Methodist Church sponsored Golden Cross? How about Baptist sponsored Baylor Scott & White? Ever heard of Shriners? Charitable doesn't mean second rate.

    Or how about Parkland Hospital... the charitable (county) hospital where JFK was taken?

    Top notch hospitals, one and all.
     
  13. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've never suffered those problems. We can also pay for treatment. So depending on any waiting times, just simply pay to be seen next day. And paying is a fraction of the cost that Americans would pay for treatment for the common cold.

    America might have the technology to put a man on the moon but they don't have the ability to do health care.
     
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  14. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    No argument from me on the quality of those hospitals, all of which predated Obamacare. There are similar non-profit and charitable hospitals all over the country, so I guess we don't need to reform healthcare after all.
     
  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They shouldn't be turned away.
    However:
    No one should be forced to work without compensation either.

    The overlap between those two conflicting principles is part of what makes liberty dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  16. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    If you say so:

    Terminally ill boy denied 'potentially life-saving' treatment by NHS 'would be given it in any US hospital'
    An eight month old boy being denied “potentially life-saving” treatment at Great Ormond Street would be given it at any hospital in America, a court has heard.​
     
  17. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do, I live in the UK.

    The majority of treatments are covered by the NHS but not all. The boy you mention, the treatment is not covered so the parents are welcome to pay or go to America, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatment, file for bankruptcy and watch the poor lad die.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  18. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so if you're not lucky enough to have an easily treated (politically popular) ailment, you're welcome to leave NHS and go to the United States for real treatment. Exactly how I figured government healthcare works.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  19. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your knowledge seems very low so I will update it.

    In the UK, you pay tax in various areas and on services and goods etc.. It goes into a big pot. Out of this pot, money goes to fund the NHS with NHS trusts running the hospitals. The NHS has guidelines on which treatments it covers. Many court cases take place which often forces the NHS to add extra ones. I don't know what's on the list.

    You are also welcome to go to a private health insurance company such as BUPA. I checked cover for a family of 4 about 15 years ago and it was £140 per month. This cover means you get treatment in an NHS hospital immediately.

    Another option is simply paying. So when I hurt my back and need evidence for my mortgage insurance, I told the hospital I would pay. I was seen the next day, MRI scan and consultation for £500. How's does that compare to the US?

    I broke my knee. I went to hospital, admitted to a bed, woke up the next day, received a plaster cast and sent home. Two months later, a new cast and when that finally came off a few months later, a check up and physio. That cost me £0.00. How much would that cost in the US?
     
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  20. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Most people in need of life saving emergency treatment dont have the option to shop around. If I am shot, I need to go to the NEAREST place of medicine RIGHT NOW.

    Wouldnt you agree?
     
  21. Smartmouthwoman

    Smartmouthwoman Bless your heart Past Donor

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    Yes, county hospital. Or you could go to CVS Minute Clinic. Its a free country. :flagus:
     
  22. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    The real issue, is that if they cannot pay, someone else has to.

    The real question is this: Do you think a person should have their property stolen by force in order to pay for someone elses medical care.
     
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  23. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Funded by whom? The ones who do not want to pay, always want someone else to pay their way, as if they owe them something.

    You know, there was a time in this country when people had pride and would not accept charity. Today they think it is their right.
    What a pathetic society we have become...
     
  24. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    I have some shocking news for you... Not a single one of us is getting out of here alive, we are all going to die, no matter what.
     
  25. Doug_yvr

    Doug_yvr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Health care is like gun control. Republicans can't work it out to save their lives yet the rest of the developed world has got it sorted.
     

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