Feminist activist in Iran sentenced to 24 years in prison for removing hijab.

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by JessCurious, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    You get the award IMHO for the most outrageous forum false dichotomy of the month. Wear a head scarf in Iran or be shot in the US.

    With your apparent love of having religious fanatics controlling society and people not being able to own guns apparently you don't believe in freedom. Sad to say most people don't.

    What do you think about the Iran law that makes a homosexual act a Capital offense?
     
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Even though hindsight is 20/20, I may be one of a few Iranians who doesn't think that would have changed all that much at the end. Sure, if you had done that, for decades or more, Iran might have been a more 'democratic' society than it was, but ultimately (while the coup against Dr. Mossadegh undermined the Shah's claim to legitimacy), the problems between Iran and the US are more fundamental than an old 'grudge'. In my view, sooner or later, those problems would surface regardless. I will have to expand on that at greater length, but I just wanted for now to have stated my view even if I have to punt the ball for an explanation of my view on it for another time.

    Btw, the comments you made regarding Marx were interesting too. I was never a Marxist, but I have read a good deal of both the young and old Marx alike. I will return to that issue as well, but for now, I need to answer some more immediate points that have been raised in some of the responses here to my comments.
     
  3. Doug1943

    Doug1943 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, I look forward to reading your thoughts on all issues. You and Maryam Mirzakhani and some other Iranians I have known confirm my belief that Iran is going to be the "Muslim Israel" some day, i.e. a nation which punches way above its weight in the intellectual field.
     
  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Did Sobo ever list those 50 genders and toilets that he attributed to lefties and presumably others? Can't find his reply anywhere.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry about being 'contrarian' at all -- or taking issue with what I have written. That is probably why I am here posting in the first place:) I just wanted to make sure I don't appear like I am ignoring your post, but otherwise, it is very late here. I will have to address the points you have made some other time. Hopefully, when I am back, I will find you around as well.
     
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Giftedone said:
    No they do not want equal treatment - they want power and control."""



    :) Sounds like the powerful white males who ruled this country from before it's birth .....
     
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  7. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Not to speak for him but he was using rather mild hyperbole compared to the anti-Trump hyperbole I read hear on an ongoing basis comparing Trump to a Nazi.

    And I am not going to scroll up and reread the thread, but I believe he blamed Feminist and not the left per se.
     
  8. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    LOL. The "hyperbole" used against Trump is mild compared to the hate spewed against Obama by the Obama hating ODS righties on this forum. As for Sobo, I couldn't find a reply so I guess he is still searching for "proof" of those 50 new genders and toilet styles.
     
  9. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    And did a damned fine job of it.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True - People in general are after power and control - and women are people :)

    The argument you are making - Women's rights were suppressed in the past - by men - and so this justifies the the suppression of Men's rights in the present - is quite common on the radical feminist wing .. almost the norm with that bunch - hence the term "radical".

    Your argument then not about equality but power and control- suppression of the rights of men. Thanks for proving my point :)
     
  11. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Except I didn't make any argument and certainly not the one you imagined I did....I said:


    "":) Sounds like the powerful white males who ruled this country from before it's birth ....."""


    ….a statement of fact.



    ...only in your obviously vivid imagination.....
     
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  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings: :) Sounds like the powerful white males who ruled this country from before it's birth .....





    LOL! Then why did Trump think he had to make it great AGAIN???


    BTW, your "fine job" is not everyone's idea of a fine job.....
     
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  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe that isn't your argument. The fact remains your statement - is normally used by the radical feminists to make the argument that Women's rights were suppressed by men in days gone by and so suppression of Mens rights in the present is ok.

    In addition .. you have made arguments in other threads to that effect. Your lack of respect for equal justice under the law for example - with respect to Child support. Law.
     
  15. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) Gosh , you really hated this fact: :) """Sounds like the powerful white males who ruled this country from before it's birth ....."""


    Some really don't like their accusations against women thrown back in their face.....I guess because they have two sets of standards:

    A. Men can do anything.

    B. Women must be controlled and not get too uppity...power and corruption are male entitlements
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  16. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    The feminists have taken their toll.


    There's no accounting for taste.
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the founders of the feminist movement was a member of my nephews family - and yet, I always believed that the real force behind the movement was our government. And that they needed the extra work force to compete with Germany and Japan. Both economies were growing rapidly while we were in a recession.

    I also think our government was behind the LGBT movement as well, and that it was being promoted in schools with Federal grants to cut down on the population. But then again, I'm a suspicious person.
     
  18. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just because you're a conspiracist

    doesn't mean it isn't!



    Wise Words from

    Moi :oldman:
     
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  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Last night (which was day time where you are) I was too tired to respond to your post in any detail, which I wanted to mostly because I understand you were born in a country that I call home. Of course, where I call home, isn’t your home now and, indeed, depending on your age and when you moved, you might not even recall a time when that country was your home at all. In fact, it might be (I wouldn’t know) that this country I speak of has been, more often than not, simply a burden placed your identity, even if it may have also brought you in closer contact with other people who have felt this burden too.

    The point is that you can bring a perspective to these issues which is certainly interesting in my eyes, but which isn’t necessarily the perspective I would bring. While I too once called America home, my heart (or at least a good part of it) was always elsewhere -- and America is no longer my home anyway. Yet, I lived in America long enough, and learned enough from it, that I can’t be entirely indifferent to it either. Nor can I look at it from the perspective of those who merely see it as the enemy. For it all to work for me, I need to think of how each of them can assume a place and role that truly fits, without either being deprived of the things I learned to appreciate in them. In doing so, I have to also recognize that you can’t simply mix a Big Mac with “Ghormeh Sabzi” and come up with a better dish! Some of the things that make each taste fine are simply things that can’t be mixed. And there will always be those who won't like either dish anyway!

    So I have my own view of what is good for the US, what is good for Iran, and how each can play a role that is good for others in our increasingly small planet that may not at all sound familiar to you. It is not a recipe that is often suggested. It is neither one dish nor the other that people have tried, nor is it a mix of them either. But it does take ingredients used in many of these dishes, in a recipe that is somewhat unfamiliar and new. In a way, it is in the genre of 'fusion cuisines' still, one with an unmistakable imprint from what I love most from Iran and the US alike, but one that can also be arranged and served differently in each those places.

    p.s.
    I know I haven’t tackled your questions still, but they aren’t things I can’t tackle without giving a lot of background to how I see things. You can always say “Big Mac” and everyone (even those who don’t like it, which I actually do) will know what you are talking about. You can say “Ghormeh Sabzi”, and Iranians and those which have had contacts with them, will know that dish too. But to explain a new dish, requires you explain the ingredients, explain how it can be prepared, and then invite people to imagine how it might taste. Only then, you might be able to perhaps find enough people willing to give it a try.
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    A sense that is about love not hatred of humans -- and their potential to grow, to evolve, and to become better still. For me, a sense that people are indeed part of the larger evolutionary forces in nature as well as in their societies, but one that doesn't feel the selection of the fittest in that evolutionary process should follow the rules of the jungle. That the more advanced human beings become, they will tend towards more advanced methods to push forward things in that evolutionary tree compared to simple brute force. And those advanced methods will themselves be part of the story of human evolution and to becoming something better still.
    On the whole "moral" thing, I am ultimately convinced, as Hume would put it (and I only quote him because he is more familiar to a western audience -- the lesson isn't all that novel and can be found in other traditions, including certainly mine): "You cannot derive an ought from an is". Not through logic or reason, but still maybe through love. Or hatred, whatever stokes some people's fancies. Both are true instincts in human nature: love to further bonding, with one-self and our conscious, with one's partner and friends, with one's society and more. Hatred to collect the fears and to unleash them towards those who either threaten what we love or those who we might wrongly feel do.

    In any case, I am not much into rendering judgments on other people. Except to try to differentiate between those who help the path I prefer with those who might threaten it.
    And because I true value my freedom, I am not one to easily follow anyone. I will, of course, look at where other people have gone and what they have experienced from their journey, but I like to choose my own path at the end. Even if it means trying to chart a different path altogether.

    I know the attractions of the "last man", and have lived that life. It is not satisfying enough for me at the end. I do want something different for myself, even if for my kids, I want to first make sure they too can have the privileges and comforts of the last man. But in such a way that it doesn't burn the flame for them wanting something different or more still.
    You are right about Rumi in the larger sense of what you mean, but the Persian chauvinist in me (even if that chauvinism isn't nearly as strong as you imagine) nonetheless finds it necessary to correct you on a small detail. Rumi may be translated in many languages, and his message and appeal is indeed universal and not for any group but all. Still, you do go way too far in trying to separate him from his Persian heritage and the language he so beautifully mastered.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I am not the judge of her case. Nor privy to the pertinent facts. I just know enough about the laws and legal system at issue, to be able to tell clear falsehoods from things which are a bit more credible.

    In the meantime, however, I was suggesting to you that even America's official propaganda outfit for Iranian news (Radio Farda, a branch of US government sponsored, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) is a bit more nuanced with their propaganda than the clear gross misrepresentations that you read here and in the OP that was posted. Depending on the audience, naturally, the propaganda can be less or more nuanced and sophisticated. But one thing you can be sure: this case isn't about Iran putting this woman in jail for any length of time (much less for 24 years) just because she didn't wear the hijab. That is simply not how it works in Iran.
     
  22. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    I ask where i can get pregnacy money
     
  23. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there are too many feminists who aren't radical.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  24. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he is awaiting trial isn't he?
     
  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    No, you've misunderstood me. You said that "people assume that opinion polls in Iran WOULD be unreliable." The "WOULD be" implied that polls don't happen in Iran currently. So I was just checking to see if you meant that they ARE unreliable. It seems that is what you meant.

    I really don't think that the majority of women would WANT to go around uncovered, do you?

    What hairstyles are men not allowed?

    You said that compulsory head covering isn't an accepted norm based on cultural practices in the West "RIGHT NOW." It seemed that you were saying that it could easily happen in the future.

    The "breach?"

    You said that, "traditional culture revolving around the institution of marriage are all under assault." I'm assuming that you think that it's a BAD thing that the institution of marriage is under assault?
     

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