A question for Christians

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ARDY, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Your words make me feel pain, there should be laws against you speaking.
     
  2. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Then I'd ask whether that pain you are feeling is really because of me or because of some underlying psychological issues you are having that you can fix. Also, if I and other people were told to stop talking because others didn't like it, would losing our freedom of speech benefit society, or would the lack of new ideas hurt society as a whole?
     
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  3. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    No there is what believers pretend is proof. Religion is faith not science.
     
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  4. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Doesn't matter by your definition if it makes you feel badly it should be illegal.
     
  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    And science doesn't determine reality, truth does.
     
  6. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And how do you personally determine truth?
     
  7. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I trust God. Just like our founding fathers did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  8. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Gee if they trusted god why did they write the Constitution?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
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  9. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    When someone hurts you, it isn't like their words are reaching into your body and making you feel pain. What is happening is that you ears is picking up their sound waves, that information is sent to the brain. Your brain then floods itself with chemicals commonly associated with emotional pain. Its actually your brain hurting you because of those words.

    So the first thing to try is to see if you can train yourself not to be so hurt by those words. That will be a lot more effective than making laws. One principle is that its often far more effective for people to fix their own problems than have a nanny government come in and protect them from all life experiences. They come out as more productive and happy individuals in the end anyway.

    Sometimes in the long term, a little pain is a good thing, and the brain makes you feel pain for a reason, for your long-term good and get you to sort out your issues.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  10. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's plenty of evidence of a world so unstable that its natural events kill thousands each year by floods, earthquakes, hurricanes etc, etc. Is this the world this god created? And should we be grateful to him?
     
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  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    They wrote it because they trusted God.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not this gibberish again. The principles on which this nation were founded - and the Constitution (bill of rights) was created in part to protect us from religious zealots and to reinforce separation of church and state.
     
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  13. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I agree the constitution was written so that no one Christian sect would rule over all the others, the byproduct of which is that no religion can become the state religion.

    However the founding fathers wrote the constitution the way they did because they believed God created mankind with inherent rights that government has no authority to mess with. They thought a persons relationship with God is more important than any function of government.
     
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with the above statement - The term "God" however should not be confused with the Christian God or anything related to the Christian God. The founders chose the word "Creator" so as to specifically not invoke the Christian God.
     
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    How did you come to that conclusion? The preamble says no such thing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  16. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Yup but their idea of God was at least based on the Christian God.
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Based on which Christian God ... and what aspects ? Christians have many different ideas with respect to God .. and these ideas differ from denomination to denomination and even sect to sect.

    The one idea that the founders used was indeed stresses by Jesus is the Golden Rule - don't do to others what you don't want done to you/ treat others as you would be treated. This is about the only rule I can think of that the founders would have used.

    While Jesus stressed this rule - YHWH is certainly not an example of and nor did YHWH follow this rule (which begs the question "which God") It also begs the question of whether this rule came from God or Jesus.

    This Rule was in Hammurabi's famous law code dating prior to 1800 BC. Buddha professed this rule as did Confucius. There was a famous Rabbi "Hillel" - around the same time as Jesus - who stated Matt 7:12 near verbatim.

    In general the founders did not hold the God of the Christians in high regard - meaning the idea that Christians have of God, and they certainly did not want those ideas involved in making law.



    Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience.-- James Madison, explaining to Congress during the House Debate what the First Amendment means to him, 1 Annals of Congress 730 (August 15, 1789), That his conception of "establishment" was quite broad is revealed in his veto as President in 1811 of a bill which in granting land reserved a parcel for a Baptist Church in Salem, Mississippi (directly above this entry)

    The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
    -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

    Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
    -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

    Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.
    -- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88 ) , from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258

    As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

    When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it.-- John Adams, from Rufus K Noyes, Views of Religion, quoted from from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
     
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  18. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You've been reading ScottmSullivan.com.

    Try reading the Bible and its background. Your God is El, who had a son named Jahweh, who had a son named Jesus. It's even in the Bible. Elohims morals were different to Jahwehs and Jesus morals different to Jahwehs.
     
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  19. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Never heard of scott m Sullivan..

    Old testament, new testament.. same God, same morals.
     
  20. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The biblical God has lousy morals. He is not a good role model.
     
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  21. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Proof that you've never actually studied the Bible.

    Try http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm and see how Ugarit influenced Judaism.
     
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  22. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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  23. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    quartz hill? never heard of it.. I'll stick with Dallas Theological seminary thanks.

    By the way, Jesus is the Jewish God no matter how much they deny it..
    "I have come not to abolish the law and prophets, but to fulfill it."

    Old testament new testament.. same God same morals.. not my fault you don't understand it..
     
  24. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Dallas Theological Seminary is was founded by Cyrus Scofield to promote futurism, the Scofield heresy and Christian Zionism … It was strictly a political strategy to take over Protestantism.
     
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  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Historically there was actually a zealous faction of Jews who believed in God but did not believe in an afterlife.
    There are also a few denominations of Christianity (though it could be questionable how Christian they actually are) who do not believe in an afterlife. Christian Science, for example.

    So while an afterlife is probably the most important motivating factor, it is not necessarily the only one.
     

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