BREAKING: House impeachment investigators release transcripts of first two deposition testimonies

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hey didn't obstruct everything Obama did that is Democrat propaganda. Obama had two years of a Democrat Congress and got his two main iniatives, Obamacare andnhis stimulus and boy failed at what they were intended to do. It was Obama who told the Republicans elections have consequences and they lost so take a seat in the back of the bus.

    Well that is what you said is the Democrat purpose. And disagreement with policy is not grounds for impeachment. That is what elections are for.

    It's in our national interest when those agreements are not in our national interest and the other parties are not holding up their part of the bargains. How is it our national interest to continu e such commitments? And Trump requested assistence fro Ukraine to investigate such foreign attempts to influence our election and you and the Dems want to impeach him for it. Yiuvcam't have it both ways.
    Good then lets have a Special Prosecutor investigate the Biden/Ukraine oligarchy deals.
    False, he didn't produce a shred of this clear and convincing evidence he claimed, Mueller found none and the matter has been dropped.
    They have been trying since he won the election. Did you miss the whistleblowers tweets yesterday from 10 days after Trump's inauguration "let the coup begin".
     
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  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    He said he presumed... but the fact remains there was none.
     
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  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's not the anti-Democrats doing that it is the Democrats doing that.
     
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  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nope must be in perfect order then they are career CIA officers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  5. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, your only reason for arguing that the rest of the individuals involved in the transcript believing that the transcript is perfect is their silence.

    That is **** in the face of sworn testimony to the contrary.
     
  6. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Of what value is 'sworn to' opinion?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  7. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    A) Plenty.
    B) This is a discussion about whether the actual content in the phone call memorandum was correctly recorded.
     
  8. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hahahahaha...some of the guys Rudy was with in Ukraine are now out on bail. Rudy may be soon. The "perfect call" mentioned two areas of corruption, although I don't think that term was ever used: 1) a request for a Ukrainian investigation in to Biden and 2) a request for a Ukrainian investigation into Ukrainian interference in the U.S. 2016 election. The requests were out-of-channels, with some effort made to keep them secret and implied that U.S. aid and the new Ukrainian President's desire for a WH meeting were contingent on the requested investigations - i.e. a quid pro quo between Congressionally approved aid for Ukraine, in exchange for information to help Trump's 2020 campaign and to disproof the conclusion of the Mueller Report regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election. Clear violation of "the abuse of power." Possible crime.
     
  9. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    A) If you would, please expand on the value of opinion.

    And

    B) We have one guy's, out of four(?), opinion that it wasn't.
     
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  10. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    No one else has testified to the accuracy of the transcript.

    Opinion, to the extent that it is based on the rational based perception of the eyewitness, is permissible in court decisions and indeed is necessary to the decisions being made by the trier of fact.
     
  11. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do we all have personal biases?

    Do our personal biases inform our opinions?

    Should the opinion of others be the sole basis upon which cases are judged, or even brought forth?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    If they believe it is doctored or incorrect there is a means for them to report it. Have they? Until then I have no other reason to beloved otherwise and neither do you other than self-serving partisanship.

    Who has testified to a material difference and what was it other than some superficial difference?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  13. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    Yes.
    No.
     
  14. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Your logic cuts both ways.

    There is now sworn testimony that their transcript is inaccurate. If they believed that it has not been doctored or that it is correct, there is a means for them to report it. Have they? Until then, Americans have no other reason to believe otherwise and neither do you other than self-serving partisanship.

    And while you rely on silence to back up your argument, the rest of us have sworn testimony.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  15. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    If I have a long-standing feud with my neighbor and think that he violated some city ordinance, does my opinion obviate the need for the actual violation to be proven?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  16. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion will be part of the investigation.
     
  17. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Not corruption
     
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  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Noi one way they have a mechanism and the transcripts are not complied in the Oval office in Trump's desk they are done by professional CIA officers. Why are you attacking them?
     
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  19. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then, as is the case with this latest hoax, it is proven that all of the evidence consists of opinion, what should be the resolution of the case?
     
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  20. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    What are their names? I want to apologize, so please, tell me their names.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  21. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    There are multiple, if not the majority, of this case which relies on demonstrable and objective facts: Whether the money was placed on hold; Whether ordinary protocols for State Department policy and procedure were followed; Whether the memorandum was placed on a highly classified server; Whether the Trump administration tried to delay the release of the whistleblower complaint; Whether Ukrainian officials were told that they needed to announce an investigation into Burisma Oil in order to get the money; Whether the Trump administration ordered all current and former employees to refuse to cooperate with the investigation; etc.

    Indeed, the only aspect - as far as I can tell - which is subject to an evaluation based on opinion is Trump's intent and whether he meant to seek a personal political benefit and whether he meant to hamper the investigation. And that, evaluating intent, is something which juries do every single day across the country, even when the accused proudly and repeatedly states that his intentions were pure.
     
  22. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Like I've said from the beginning.

    This latest hoax is based on opinion.
     
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  23. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    1. Perhaps you missed the very interesting point that the military aid you cite, got released AFTER it became public knowledge that Trump was withholding it for his own personal political benefit--which was illegal.
    2. Perhaps you missed the fact that on the very first day following Trump's public request to Russia for them to find Hillary's missing emails, the Russians DID hack into Hillary's computer system. Perhaps you missed the fact that after Trump abandoned our combat allies in Syria, he publicly welcomed the incoming Russian soldiers when they moved in & took up residence in our former military bases there. You may have missed that Trump withheld military aid for Ukraine, a decades long friend, currently engaged in a hot war with Russian troops invading their country. You may have missed the fact that Trump has made statements to the effect that "Ukraine is part of Russia, & not its own country." You may have missed Trump's single-minded determination to return Russia to the G7 organization, even though all other member countries disagree, & ousted Russia after its unprovoked & illegal invasion of Ukraine & annexation of Crimea. But why would Trump care; since he believes all of Ukraine belongs to Russia anyway? Meanwhile, thousands of Ukrainians are fighting & dying, trying to protect & preserve their freedom from Russian aggression. And YOU support Trump. Amazing.
    3. Perhaps you missed the very real fact that NATO has been the most successful multi-national military agreement in human history for keeping the peace in a section of the world known for frequent wars. You praise a President who is incapable of recognizing the value of that accomplishment, or honoring the organization that did it. Instead, Trump measures the value of NATO, as he does everything else, by the money involved in maintaining it. Trump doesn't see that there are other measures of value other than money, that are more important & more accurate. By supporting Trump, you endorse his myopic values.
    4. You are correct in saying Ukraine has a corruption problem, but you are totally wrong if you believe Trump's propaganda claiming he was concerned about it or wanted to fix it. The opposite is true. Trump simply added his own version of corruption to the Ukrainian mix, by demanding & coercing Ukraine to do his bidding regarding investigating the Bidens as a condition for Trump freeing the pre-approved military aid to them. Here we have a new Ukrainian President elected by the Ukrainian voters, whose whole campaign theme was to eliminate the corruption. At the same time, America elected a con man determined to use corruption in his daily work as foreign affairs President. So a President elected to eliminate corruption in Ukraine, became the victim of a new U.S. President who used a new form of corruption from America to force Ukraine's hand. Ugh. . .amazing.
    It is clear to many of us that the whole issue of VP Biden being part of some corruption scheme, was invented by Trump & his supporters to divert attention away from the ongoing impeachment process. I don't agree with Biden on many issues, but I see him as generally an honest man of integrity. Trump has proven time & again, he is neither.
    5. Since the current President is himself corrupt, YES, I feel very uneasy with Trump making that final decision. He has proven to me that he is incapable of separating his own needs from his job as President, & ALL his decisions are based on his personal needs & NOT the needs of the nation. For me, that's not the trademark of a good President.
    6. What I find utterly amazing is how many Americans still support this idiot President in spite of his lack of character, lack of honesty, lack of integrity & lack of love for his country. That's truly amazing--in a truly sickening way. :(
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  24. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    For me, the "crazy bat" is in the White House.
     
  25. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Our founding fathers, & especially George Washington, who fought in the Revolutionary War, all feared foreign influences because of what they could do to undermine our republic. What makes you think Trump's frequent & repeated invitations for foreign leaders to become involved in our domestic elections is now OK?
     

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