Tulsi Gabbard

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Doug1943, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Tulsi should join the Republican party and run against Trump. If she should lose she can join Trump's Cabinet . ( maybe even replace Pence ? )
     
  2. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    She could run with Bloomberg.
     
  3. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Not sure of the precise meaning of your rather convoluted cryptic metaphor, or your very poor simile. Tulsi can't be characterized as anyone's problem. Tulsi is our country's solution. I have asked anyone to present just ONE example of her controversial policies, just one inconsistency in her message or voting record, or just one reason to justify doubting her character or her integrity. Still waiting. Nothing but subjective vague feelings of mistrust, uncertainty, weird metaphors, creative straw man, identity politics, personal jealousy, blind party loyalty, and many don't even know why. We simply have no other politician to compare Tulsi to. Other than Kennedy(who was assassinated), no other candidate has demonstrated the courage, the talent, the intelligence, or the gravitas, to terrify corporate America, even while polling at around 5%. Even with MSM's concerted smear campaign against Tulsi, her message is still resonating. Now, MSM has abandoned all pretense of hiding, or justifying their smear attacks. They will just keep spreading lying propaganda, because they know most people are gullible, and will never question what they are being told. So they are now only appealing to the ignorant and the exploitable. Still, the American public don't seem to care about how money and power, is trying to manipulate and interfere with our Democratic process. Why is your outrage so misdirected? Does it even matter to you why she is being attacked and smeared? Maybe you just like things the way they have been for the last 70 years?

    What you are looking at is a real human being first, and an intelligent seasoned politician and senior military leader second. Since we can't seem to label anyone with this level of authenticity, empathy, and genuineness, our conditioned comfort-zone becomes threatened. We are so conditioned to the media's circus, and the staged performances of its actors acting-out optimism, that when someone comes along that is not acting or pandering, we assume that it must be a ruse. What does this say about the basis of our judgement, or our character? Are you saying that because Tulsi speaks truth to power, that her policies should be scrutinized even more thoroughly? So, what have you found? But, for those who tow the corporate lines, parrot corporate talking points and platitudes, and would simply go along to get along, that they should NOT receive much push-back or intense scrutiny? Is this what you are saying?

    Evolving? To evolve to the level of her other candidates, would be de-evolving. We need her NOW. Our country can't wait another 4 years, to keep repeating these same arguments. She is a once in a generation candidate, that is frankly too over-qualified to become President.

    Her vision couldn't be any clearer. STOP ENGAGING IN ENDLESS WARS, WHILE THE PEOPLE AT HOME ARE SUFFERING. USE THE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS WASTED IN KILLING PEOPLE, FOR HELPING PEOPLE. What is sad, is that we now consider these policies as visionary. What other candidate, also "fits that cookie-cutter mould"?

    Where was your fake outrage for the last 10 months, when Tulsi was being blatantly smeared and attacked? Her smears was an entire corporate campaign, to discredit her campaign, and silence her message. We are now talking about a "third world type of election", in an American Democracy. Do I really need to expose Harris, Warren, Biden, Buttigieg, or Klobuchar, using only facts, and verifiable evidence? Do I really need to point out their work histories, their campaign's corporate contributors, their voting inconsistencies in congress, their blatant lies, gaffes, half-truths, and their unique moral compass? So, please tell me which of the candidates you feel I am smearing? Shall I start with Warren, Biden, Harris, or Buttigieg? Unlike they do with Tulsi, I won't have to make up lies and inferences, or use false association to question their character or their judgement. Candidates should only be attacked on their policies, record, intelligence, experience, authenticity, and their integrity. They should never be attacked on their character, identity, religion, fashion, gender, race, or their favorite food. But these all seem fair game, in silencing Tulsi's campaign and message. And, only apathy seems to abound, unless she actually tries to fight back. Then they call her an opportunist, taking advantage of the lies people say about her. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. This is the same immature "Joy Behar logic", "Well she didn't deny it".

    What is your spin on Biden's meeting with Latino's? Or, his views on Black mother's parenting skills? His failing memory? Or, his corporate whose who donor resume? Will these facts also be considered smears? If any candidate is taking millions in corporate pacs and super pacs, then that candidate is beholding to the interests of those pacs. If you don't see the dangers of this corporate "quid pro quo", then you are naïve or obstinate. Do you think that Booker will more likely vote for legislations against the Pharmaceutical Industries, since they have contributed hundreds of thousands to his campaign? https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/jul/02/donald-trump/cory-booker-and-drug-maker-campaign-cash-numbers/ . This makes him a potential corporate asset(corporatist). Accepting money from large corporate donors, tells me just what you are willing to sell to become President. Obviously, you don't have much faith in your message or the decision of the American people.




     
  4. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Your blather aside, you just proved my point. Tulsi goes no further into domestic policy other than "stopping regime change wars". Granted, it's a powerful message that I agree with, but it won't get her the nomination by itself.
     
  5. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    See, there's the rub. Okay, we stop the crazy wars. Great!!! Now what? It's not money saved...... it's debt not incurred. The fact is that we are over $21 trillion in debt. How do we move forward without sinking even further in debt?
     
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  6. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    \

    Firstly, I do not "blather", I inform. If you are going to keep parroting unsupported corporate soundbites about Tulsi, then at least back it up. Let's see the evidence. At her town hall meetings, she always starts out explaining her domestic policy agenda first. Do you want me to provide you with all the sites to prove it? What about her domestic policies? They include,

    Net Neutrality, Glass-Steagall, the use of the Sherman Antitrust Act to break up monopolies, the email privacy act, the USA Rights act, the Educational Assistance Act, Every Student Succeeds Act, the College for All Act, Fixing America's Transportation Act, the READI and WATER Acts, the WRDL Act, the Stop School Violence Act. using paper ballots, abolishing the Cash-Bail system and Private Prisons, Stop Arming Terrorists Act, supports a $15 minimum wage, supports M4All plus private option, closing the revolving door, free college, and many, many, many more Domestic policies. Please take another look at her history on domestic issues. Based on the clear evidence of the vast majority of her legislative history, she is a domestic policy expert. Just because she is the only one(maybe Bernie) that is calling for the US to stop its regime-change, and interventionist foreign policies, does not mean that she is a domestic policy light weight. Just because you can only hear her foreign policy, does not mean that that is all she is saying.

    I have shown you the evidence, and provided you with a video that proves Tulsi is no "one trick pony". If you don't want to accept the evidence, then back up your assertions with your own evidence. Otherwise, you are just part of the problem. So please look again at the facts. This information is accessible to anyone who wants it. She certainly does not lack any domestic policy experience.

    Regarding this debt not incurred, should we just keep incurring debt while killing people for profit, or incur a lot less debt while addressing domestic issues here at home? This reminds me of a 30 year smoker, asking his doctor if he should give up smoking. What would you tell him, "No, the damage is already done", or, "Yes, this may be your start to recovery"? In spite of your lack of optimism, we can start getting rid of our debt. But stopping all foreign wars, and unnecessary Government borrowing, are essential for this to begin. Remember, only 1 Billion dollars per year is divided up among the Mayors and used to help with the infrastructure of all cities in the US. We spend over 4 billion every month in Iraq alone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  7. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    First off, I don't parrot soundbites. I have followed Tulsi a fair amount through YouTube vids (Jimmy Dore, Kim Iverson and Tulsi' s own).

    Secondly, the video you posted proved nothing. With the above post, all you're doing is s bit of parroting of your own. I have heard Tulsi mention most of these things but she doesn't put any meat on the bones. Where does the money come from, for instance, for Medicare for all or free college? From stopping regime change wars? Hardly. We could eliminate the military budget entirely and still run a deficit in the hundreds of billions, and that's without free college or Medicare for all.

    Hey, I'm just playing Captain Obvious here. Where's the money coming from? Cutting spending? More taxes? Tulsi, as much as I like her, simply has huge gaps in her platform.
     
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  8. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    You guys better lay off my girlfriend.
     
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  9. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Like what?
     
  10. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    I'd ask her for an opinion on Trump's recent pardons of military service members convicted of crimes.
     
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  11. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tulsi Gabbard on the criticism she has received from Democrats for appearing on Fox News for an interview....

    “This is why, I’ll go on Fox News, MSNBC, CNN and I’m delivering the exact same message to people and we’re building and growing support in people who watch those three different channels,” Gabbard said. “You’re never going to be able to have a dialogue… win support from people who you treat like garbage, who you disrespect, who you call names, who you call deplorables. But how do you expect to lead as the president of every single American in this country when you’ve thrown half of them away?”
     
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  12. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    She’s a wise person.
     
  13. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    She is the only democrat with the balls to go on Fox news because Fox will not toss her softball questions like every other news outlet does to all their little darlings on the left.
    The communist party has just tipped their hand complaining about her going on Fox. They care nothing about anyone but other communists that toe the line and kneel to the party. Thank you. I will count that as another 50,999 new Trump voters that were on the fence.
     
  14. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    If you have followed Tulsi, and listened to her town hall meetings, you would know that she is NOT weak in domestic policy issues at all. Since the video proved nothing, what about the 3 sites highlighting her actual record on domestic issues? How many of them do I have to list, to put "meat on the bone"? It would take hours for her to completely cover each of her domestic policies, so you must do your own research. Otherwise, it will all seem like soundbites. Again, simply asserting that Tulsi has HUGE GAPS in her platform, don't make it so. Specifically, just what are these gaps you are claiming?

    It is easy to assert anything, but harder to back them up. What really would happen if we eliminated the military budget? And, what could we do with the same borrowed money? https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/09/pentagon-budget-spending-war-military https://www.quora.com/What-would-happen-if-the-US-increased-its-military-budget-to-10-of-its-GDP https://www.thebalance.com/will-the-u-s-debt-ever-be-paid-off-3970473

    Are you suggesting that we should continue borrowing and spending trillions of dollars, to keep financing foreign interventionism? I am suggesting that we shift our priorities. Instead of spending over $200M on a Drone, that we spend it on our infrastructure. Instead of paying drone pilots $3,500 per day, that we raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour. Instead of spending trillions of dollars on building new nukes, new ships and planes, and new ordinances and transport vehicles, that we use some of it to address real social and environmental issues. Our priorities is not overseas, it should be here at home.

    Whenever you say, "Where does the money come from?", that is a talking point. The Government gets over 85% of its revenue from personal income tax, social security, and Medicare withholding taxes. The rest come from corporate, gift and estate, and duty taxes. As well as duties, fees and tariffs. The government can also borrow money, or just print more money. It all depends on how well the economy is doing. So, when you ask, "Where is the money coming from?". A lot of places. It is leadership that we need, to become more fiscally responsible. Keeping us out of wasteful foreign interventions, would certainly be a start. So, given our homeless crisis, our job crisis, our education crisis, our wage crisis, our health crisis, our environmental crisis, and our energy crisis, what would be YOUR fiscal priorities? We can run as a surplus, and start addressing our fiscal deficit.
     
  15. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Talk about conflating data points!!! Wow!!!

    You talk about government expenditures and then slide in the point about paying drone pilots $3,500 per day. Now that got got my attention. Where does such a figure come from? Ahh .... here we go.

    “You can earn a couple hundred bucks for a package of real estate photos,” said Denver-based drone pilot Vic Moss, who is also a co-owner of the online community Drone U. “Flying drones part-time can earn you $500 or $600 a week, and by flying full-time, you can make six-figures annually. Flying for big name companies can net you $3,500 a day.”

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/B3D31A58-8C67-11E8-9897-AFAE7A11BECD

    As is clear, this is not the government paying these wages. So, tell me how government "shifting our priorities" will change what private business pays for certain services.

    How did you come up with this one?

    "Instead of spending over $200M on a Drone, that we spend it on our infrastructure" ....

    The Reaper, or Predator B, was the world's first unmanned aerial vehicle that could attack targets on the ground. At US$16.9 million, according to a 2013 US budget report, it was also the world's most expensive drone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  16. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Here are some more conflated data. The military drone program is responsible for the death of over 500,000 people(over half were civilians), at a cost of 5.9 Trillion dollars. Do you think the people living under the threat of drone attacks, will have anti, or pro-American sentiments? Or, do you care at all?

    Maybe in 2013 this might've been true. Actually, the drone cost $220 Million, but I was trying to be conservative. https://www.wired.com/story/iran-global-hawk-drone-surveillance/ This is the same type of surveillance drone that was shot down over Iran. What do you think will happen, when terrorists and anti-American dissenters begin to acquire their own drones? Or, to join other countries, that are being droned by America? Is this the world you want for our future generations? Who do you think will benefit the most from the use of drones? Corporations or the people? Do you think that the lack of oversight, transparency, and accountability of America's Drone program, just might be viewed as a harmful model for other countries? What about our abandoning treaties, arming and financing coups(Bolivia, Venezuela, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, etc.), imposing crippling sanctions, de-stabilizing foreign governments, or selling arms to terrorists(Saudi Arabia)? These programs are all very costly, and should end.

    Since our government does not make any weapons of war, it must CONTRACT-OUT for private industries to make them. I NEVER claimed that the Government directly pays the wages of the employees of contractors. That would be silly, since the government has no direct control on what private companies pay their employees. Our government pay each contractor based on their cost estimate bids(or should be). These estimates also include the cost of materials, labour, salaries, transportation, maintenance, equipment, services, insurance, and many other cost factors. The only priority the government should have, is to pick the contractor, that offer both the lowest bid and the highest quality. But, with so much money in politics, this is not always the case.

    Either you don't know, don't care, or don't want to know, just how we are all impacted by our governments military spending. Or, why we must keep our military engaged in endless wars all over the world. Making the argument that it doesn't matter, whether we go into debt policing and killing people in wasteful wars, or in helping people and the environment by addressing domestic issues, is just an asinine no-brainer. I gave you a very clear example of a military and social perspective, that you seem to have ignore. One Billion dollars each year, is divided up among all mayors in this country. They all look forward to this time in the year. This grant is used to help repair and maintain the city's infrastructure, and to buy and repair equipment for the emergency services in these cities. This is roughly $52,000 each year, for each of the 19,429 Mayors in America(some a little more, and some a little less). By comparison, we spend over $9 Billion in Afghanistan and Iraq each month. We spend over $200M each day in rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq alone($60B budget). https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/14/us-...n-middle-east-asia-wars-since-2001-study.html Please watch the 4min video for some perspective.

    What do you think would be the impact of "shifting our priorities" and spending only a fraction of this "war dividend", on this Municipal Grant? There is over 900 other Block, Project, or Earmark Grants, to assist or stimulate local and state governments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_grants_in_the_United_States This obviously has nothing to do with how private companies price their goods and services(other than the obvious). What other social and environmental issues do you think, would benefit from this additional revenue? If only we began the process of cutting the Government's budget, cutting Government's spending, cutting Government's borrowing, cutting Government's tax loop-holds and tax credits, reinstate Glass-Steagall and our Anti-Trust regulations, end all private prisons and the cash-bail system, de-criminalizing Federal Cannabis laws, increasing the taxes on anyone making over $500K, and imposing a price-freeze/limit on all essential products(eggs, milk, bread, meat, gas, etc.), and other goods, and services. If we did, our national debt, social issues, and our economy, would no longer be an issue in any discussion. This is why we need a leader, with the balls for "shifting our priorities", and the courage to stand up to the entire pollical and corporate establishment, trying to keep the status quo. Unfortunately, it is blind partisan tribalism that gets in the way of the basic changes we need. We have become our own worst enemy.

    I'm sure that no rational person can still believe in the "Manufactured Consent" by Corporate media. MSM only job is to provide the narratives of their corporate masters, to maintain the government's economic and geopolitical interests. It is no mystery why they would lie to us, but it is a mystery why we keep believing and defending the lies that they tell us. The chemical weapons attack in Syria was proven to be staged by terrorists and the CIA(Tulsi was right again). The Gulf of Tonkin incident, was a lie. The weapons that we sell to Saudi Arabia being used to commit genocide in Yemen, is true. It is true that the US created Al Qaeda and Isis. That Iraq had WMD's was a lie. That Iran was building a Nuclear Weapon, was a lie. That Iran was working with Al Qaeda, or had violated the Nuclear Treaty, was a lie. That there was any election fraud in Venezuela or Bolivia, were all lies. As well as, all the lies of omission rather than commission. My point(and Tulsi's), is that our social issues should be the main focus of our policies. Not on a foreign policy, that is littered with death, chaos, and destruction, based entirely on lies, told by MSM to manufacture Consent. All of these continued illegal foreign wars must stop, or we will all continue to suffer because of them. Can you even name just ONE South American, African, or Middle Eastern country that has benefited positively from American Intervention, since WWII? Just one.
     
  17. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    It is questionable why she isn't getting any traction, to me it sounds like they are smearing her (a Democrat) like they smeared Palin (a Republican) no wonder why Nikki didn't want to run for president.

    It's like this huge campaign against young vibrant women that the DNC is trying to destroy unless they tow the line
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  18. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    It doesn't matter her platforms, she would have to deal with Congress anyways, to me its about having a normal president, for some reason the Democrats dont want it .

    They insist to fundamentally change America into some weird ass country, where the elites rule and cowboys and cowgirls bow down to them
     
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  19. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    I saw Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 11/9 the other night: the party machine is pretty good at ignoring the grass-root supporters. Apparently Bernie was well ahead of Hillary at branch-level conventions in 2016.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  20. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Bernie would of won the presidency , if the DNC didnt rig it for Hillary .
     
  21. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Professor Stephanie Kelton can answer your question: "where's the money coming from"

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/01/ber...or-stephanie-kelton-on-mmt-and-2020-race.html

    Unfortunately it seems only AOC has any awareness of this so far; but when even Mario Draghi (retiring head of the ECB) says we (referring to central bankers) should look at MMT, then maybe it's time....though Powell seems content to be labelled "public enemy no.1" by Trump, in the US...
     
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  22. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Informative link, thank you


     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  23. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    Odd, @6:05, they make her the villain. She's the one that wants to stop stupid and wasteful wars;
     
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  24. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    I am glad this is catching steam
     
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  25. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    I just listened to Tulsi on Joe Rogan podcast. Listening to her talk you would never believe she is a democrat. She actually engages her brain before she opens her mouth. Haven't seen that from a democrat in 60 years.
     

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