Civics Education in the US

What does that have to do with anything?

 

Uhm how do we set them up to be a dictatorship? Communist?

 

You don't have to ask me. You can look at places where we have had that kind of influence.

I'd say Iraq is a prime example, as we had an unusually high degree of influence. Our consultation urged them to have a parliamentary form of government, not one like ours - even though they wanted a system like ours.

 

FREE POST-SECONDARY SCHOOLING

There is only one measure of "equality" and it is recognized by economists worldwide. It is called Income Inequality, because that is precisely what it measures.

See the international chart here and note that, amongst the OECD countries (considered "developed"), that the US has the highest quotient of Income Inequality.

So your blarney about equal-opportunity being dependent upon individual capacity is a really poor excuse for an economic-system that has been unfair since the get-go for the past two centuries.

Income opportunity is a very complex economic-animal constituted of many, many facets. The foremost of which is not just ambition but also education. And as regards the latter; the US has the highest educational fees (private or public), which means only about 60% of all secondary-school graduates obtain a tertiary-level degree.

(See also here for more exact percentages of postsecondary schooling degree attainment.)

And that aint-gonna-change until we wake-up as a nation to the extraordinary expenditure on the DoD that should rightly go to post-secondary Education making it free, gratis and for nothing for lower-income families. The only real threat to the nation today is a lack of a highly-qualified workforce.

The SOLE MANNER by which we can address and resolve that acute problem - as we leave the Industrial Age and enter further into the Information Age - is to subsidize the acquisition of the necessary skills by a postsecondary level of education* ...

*During the latter half of the 19th and early in the 20th century Uncle Sam found himself in the very same bottleneck. That is, the development of industries needed people who could read and write, so the American states made secondary-level schooling a requirement. (See that factual evidence here.) We are facing exactly the same challenge once again, but at a higher level of schooling and the answer is the very same! Free tertiary-level schooling.

 

And of whom do you expect to answer that question?

Copy (as I did to you above) the individual that you are addressing if you expect an answer from anyone - otherwise they cannot know you made the remark ...

 

The SOLE MANNER by which we can address and resolve that acute problem - as we leave the Industrial Age and enter further into the Information Age

LMFAO..

What does the information age produce?

Opinions..

 

I did. No worries -

 

It's a bullshit lie narrative designed to foment maximum resentment against people who almost always simply work more, work smarter and are therefore more pleasing to their fellow man via the increased provision of valuable goods, services and especially innovations they provide that benefit us all.

How to know it's bullshit, as all gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyer-MSM Complex resentment narratives are prone to be?

It doesn't factor out:

a) entry level workers just starting their careers or working while going to school, essentially being trained in their jobs while getting paid for it. MILLIONS of these.
b) retirees who work in menial jobs to keep busy and social despite not needing to work at all. MILLIONS of these.
c) mental defectives and the handicapped who are in low income jobs because they cannot perform other work. MILLIONS of these.
d) part time workers, many in dual income households, more prevalent in the U.S. and other advanced countries. MILLIONS of these.
e) flex time mothers and other women who gladly accept low relative pay in exchange for more time with their families. MILLIONS of these.
f) riders of the "benefits carousel" who have to work for 6 months before they can go right back on unemployment. MILLIONS of these.

NONE of these categories should be counted in any assessment of the distributions of income in an economy, yet not so curiously, they ALWAYS are in every Complex "income inequality" lie narrative I've ever seen, yours is no different.

People are wising up, just like the conclusively discredited "wage gap" lie narrative, the holes in the threadbare Complex resentment-based narratives on wealth and income equality are becoming apparent to all in the net age post statist information hegemony. There will be backlash, people hate being lied to, and it is JUST now forming. The next few decades are going to be a rough ride for the Complex in the U.S. unless they can do what they do best 1) trade in human misery by creating more and more permanent dependent underclasses locked out of the meaningful economy by STATIST, not private sector policies, and 2) Falsify and "find" more fake ballots and hanging chads than they have EVER been required to do in the past to cheat and steal elections.

Will they be able to pull it off via fraud and free stuff? Stay tuned.

 

Except in rare cases, opportunity in America is equal. If you're poor, just keep going to school and stay away from drugs.

People should be allowed to succeed or fail according to their abilities. Leveling the results to assist those who made poor life choices is immoral.

 

Our science, economy and government live on information. It permeates decision making throughout the world.

This is one of the key sectors where we can not afford to trail.

 

Yep, even LW Brookings found that impoverished Americans need to do just three things to have an overwhelming chance of joining the middle class during their lives and have only a TWO percent chance of remaining in poverty. That's -one- generational mobility for doing -three- things.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

1. Finish High School. Boy that's a real toughie.
2. Get a full time job and remain in it.
3. Forego marriage and children until 21.

What a harsh, economically immobile society we live in. The Man holding everyone down.

 

Just a note to start with: You say there is equal opportunity. Then, you immediately admit that there are those who do NOT have equal opportunity, thus have to strive harder than the rest.

This is a real issue as our economy moves beyond manufacturing toward automation, information, high tech, clean energy, innovation, etc. - areas that require more than high school and will be major in terms of international trade and our standard of living in the US as was manufacturing back when we had an advantage in that.

We have barely 5% of the raw material (brains) needed for positions in this coming economy. We can not afford to allow pointless barriers of unequal opportunity to sidetrack that resource.

And, that is what we are doing when we decide not to educate and fully use that whole 5% - while even refusing to import that raw material from other countries!

 

I'd point out that the first paragraph of that article states issues that are not addressed by the prescription and ignore concerns of safety, failing schools, etc.

Then, it goes on to talk about the "thousands" of programs to "help".

But, the thing is, one has to decide if those programs are getting the job done. If not, then perhaps instead of bragging about the number of them, it may be time to work on how to improve.

Then it starts with the paragraphs on why a two parent middle class family is better!!! Did anyone ever disagree with that? Ever?

I didn't read beyond that as the first few pages were pretty dissappointing

 

It's quite simple, no need to obfuscate and wrangle-waffle around, the findings were clearly stated and easy to understand.

A left leaning think tank did a study and found that poor teens who did those three elementary things listed, stayed in school, got a full time job, avoided marriage and children until 21, escaped poverty 98% of the time and entered the middle class (>55k income) over 50% of the time. Do you think they just made it up? Don't like their data or conclusions? Fine, take it up with Brookings or do your own study. You have a bad habit of talking all around points instead of addressing them directly. Why is that?

 

Sorry about the dupe.

I pointed out some specific issues, and I'll note that Brookings, like Cato and others does not block all papers that are outside its mainstream.

Ignoring some inconsistancies and assumptions, the main problem is that the chosen objective isn't good enough.

Forty years ago we had people graduating from high school and taking good paying jobs in manufacturing. However, since the turn of the century or so it's been clear that manufacturing is changing significantly. By the time of the last presidential election, those people were hurting and had BEEN hurting for long enough that it was a serious nation issue.

While it's certainly possible for some guy with a high school education to acquire a $55K job at some point in their career, I just don't see that as any kind of average outcome for those working toward a high school diploma today. And even if it were possible, that appears to me as no better than the next crop of employees who will be approaching their last work decade with skills that just aren't needed anymore.

I think it's time to get serious about this problem. Our economy is moving toward high tech, clean energy, automation, innovation, etc. The middle class jobs are highly likely to require at least some college.

Telling people they can do well on high school only is not a solution.

And, pretending that it's as easy as telling other people's kids what they need to do makes no sense to me. As Brookings points out, there are thousands of organizations trying that. And, Brookings isn't suggesting that is a success.

 

Funny I know a girl in South Carolina that is making 75 grand a year with just a high school diploma, manufacturing jobs are all over the south, not that hard to make that money with overtime.

 

There will always be a few lightening strikes. There will always be a few total duds. That is not the issue.

The issue has to do with what the entire group who graduated from high school at that time and took no further education are doing today.

During the last presidential election cycle, those manufacturing workers who we found had been left behind were NOT duds. They were solid workers with familes. They weren't in position to take time out to learn something new in school or through some apprenticeship program - during which they would be on poverty income.

 

I comprehend what you are saying and so many places offer trade schools supported by business, but my point is for some reason people think manufacturing dried up in the USA and just go to the job boards they are hiring all around.

 

The real hurt came with the 2008 crash.

Not only did jobs dry up, but manufacturing production rebounded to 2007 levels within about a year and continued to grow from there, while employment in manufacturing didn't rebound for more than 5 years.

Rather than higher back employees, manufacturing worked out ways to produce as much or more with fewer employes. It was a real kickoff for automation, for example. When USSteel returned to the US, they produced steel with 1/10th the number of employees that used to be required.

During those years there were job openings, but they were for those with education in designing and operating automated production.

The direction is clear. There will be wobbles. Right now I suspect we're buying our economy by putting a trillion per year on the national debt. That will not continue.

 

Yeah I know, trillion bucks a year is not sustainable, especially with all that interest

 

ACUTE INCOME DISPARITY

Simplicisms that have no bearing on life-as-it-is amongst the poor in America. You must also think that since unemployment rates are so low that America must-be a happy-place to live for all-and-sundry. (Except it still isn't for some.)

One succeeds or fails based upon their "preparation" and that readiness is twofold. First it is a matter of healthcare (which is exorbitantly expensive in the US. And a close second is intellectual-ability as found in a Tertiary Education. BOTH OF WHICH ARE HEAVILY PRIVATIZED AND THEREFORE EXORBITANTLY EXPENSIVE - postsecondary education being the "pump" for the largest part of Private Debt in America.

You live on a cloud somewhere over La-La-Land ? Or, just Texas ... ?

Iow, "that's life and there's nothing we can do about it".

Maybe in Texas and fortunately America may wake up one-day to the serious challenges facing its lifestyle-existence. But with your sort of Intellectual Blindness to the facts-at-hand, such an outcome is presently unlikely.

A fact "at hand" that economists call Acute Income Disparity:


See Uncle Sam's Income Inequality above - third from the highest*!

With any luck, the pie-in-your-sky will never crumble ...

*With Mexico and Chile being higher. Wow, what a family! (No wonder Donald Dork wants to fence-off Mexico!)

 

Just curious you try to make an intellectual post then end it childish with phrases like "donald dork" why?

 

PART 2

I went looking to see how Texans actually felt about "fencing-off Mexico". I find the analysis amazing.

From here:Texas voters deeply divided on voting, a border wall and diversity, says UT/TT Poll - excerpt:

The last two paragraphs above shows the stark division between both sides of American's unique "political-fence" on economic issues. Which means what?

My Point1: Maybe America needs a third-party middle-ground of Independents (Yes, an "Independence Party"!) that can vote either-way given the logical merit of any issue/question? And not knee-jerking always at the same (boring) political altar that costs megabucks to finance.
My Point2: What is very likely is that America needs bold Civics Learning courses that discuss the the societal background of its dual-political system. The kids are graduating at an age that will allow them to vote. They should be discussing Civic Alternatives and taught/debate about the political-differences in the world that have arrived since Communism's highly-predictable death. And passing the course should be a degree-requirement!

 

Nice thought and highly correct - but the present actuality is that the largest Information Source today (the Internet) is in a very bad way.

Because nobody had given much thought of the way in which political opinion could be mishandled at the voting booth. In the US, since 1812 with the advent of both the 12th Amendment and Gerrymandering.

And it is indeed still being manipulated in order to achieve political-party desired voting results ...