We Will rebuild the Middle Class

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Steve N, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What I am saying is what I wrote...namely that I am laughing at you.
     
  2. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Trump hasn't talked about usurping the US Constitution, not that I've ever heard.

    Warren is de facto talking about it. Plain to hear, plain to see
     
  3. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    That's fine, and that's the system we have now, but today's EC is not the system the Founders wanted us to have. They wanted the EC to pick the president, not function as a rubber-stamp.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The EC -does- pick the President.
     
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  5. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Hey kat..
     
  6. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What the hell are you on about. By your standard, 54% didn’t want trump in 2016 but you seem to be ok with that ?

    if you want to play the percentages game, then let’s play it
     
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  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    -I'm- not arguing in favor of the NPVC, a concept supposedly based on the will of the people in relation to the EC.
    Thus, I ask again:
    How does a winner with 41% of the vote fit into the concept of the NPVC?
     
  8. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the electoral college was very clearly defined by the number of voters per state, and based on their population. The southern states wanted to count slaves, who could not vote, so the 3/5ths compromise was achieved. The framers defined that the electoral college vote would be equally split based on the popular vote (by percentage). Over time the states, and the party’s, bastardized that ideal and changed each state to a “winner take all” where the entirety of each states delegation had to vote for the winning candidate in their state.

    The one thing the framers did not account for was population density within states. That has changed the game significantly. It has changed the “one man one vote” doctrine significantly”. A voter in Montana has 3x the representation power at the federal level than someone in New York. Are you ok with that ?
     
  9. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so it isn’t the people that matter, it’s the land ?
     
  10. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    All true - but none of this speaks to your claimed intent of the framers with regard to how the states would choose their electors.
    Please describe how the framers intended the states to choose their electors and support it with relevant text.
     
  11. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if 41% is the “most” among those who got votes, that is the winner. If their is a finite number of people to vote on, the most Is the highest percentage. That same as it is in the electoral college today.
     
  12. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    And I ask AGAIN:
    How does a winner with 41% of the vote fit into the concept of the NPVC?
     
  13. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It’s the people in the respective states.
     
  14. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The original selection of electors was done by the state legislatures. Today Republicans control the legislatures in 32 states. And control the upper houses in 34 states.
     
  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump won 30 states in 2016.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    ???

    The issue is that he's doing it.

    And, yes EVERyONE should be talking about that.

    His offenses include corecion of foreign governments to help him in his election - basically what he did at the last election, with so many of his conspirators now jailed or convicted.


    Unfortunately, one can't "wait for the next election" when assaulting our elections is the offense!

    Why should anyone wait around to find out if his assault on our democracy works a second time around???
     
  17. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

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    Known Leftist colleges are the LEAST accepting of free speech in the country. Students there cry about stubbing their toe or being scared by guys like Ben Shapiro....because he's scary=) Little Jewish guy who talks fast and can crush just about anyone in a debate, so I guess that makes him dangerous.
     
  18. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    If we had actually implemented the EC the way it was intended, the country's history (and therefore the present day) would likely be much much different.
     
  19. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

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    Can you define this tyranny? Can you point out which laws Trump has created that has made your life less free? What can't you do now, that you could do back in 2015? What rights has he taken away from you?
     
  20. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    And got less votes than his opponent. What do you think the GOP reaction to the EC would be if the shoe was on the other foot? I guarantee you they would screaming about the unfairness of it all, just as the Dems are.
     
  21. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    If Trump is allowed to get away with what he's done, there will someday be a Democrat President who pulls the same trick. They might even be impeached. But they won't be removed by Senate Democrats. People have long memories. Democrats aren't going to forget Republicans let Trump get away with bribery/extortion/abuse of power, just as Republicans haven't forgotten Democrats let Clinton get away with perjury.
     
  22. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The right to buy Chinese goods, cheaply. The right not to have a President who sells out the country to destroy political opponents. The right not to have a President who negotiates with psychotic murderers. The right to have a President who defends my rights, not violate them. The right to sell goods to China at the price iI’m willing to pay, not what the President dictates. The right to have a President who’s not a xenophobe.

    Or how about just a President who fights for free markets instead of practicing mercantilism.

    How about just a man of reason instead of a loudmouth buffoon.

    I know, I ask too much.
     
  23. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your last sentences says it all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No kidding.

    The Democratic candidate got the most votes in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections. The EC countred the will of the people giving us 3 Republican presidents in that period!

    The system IS rigged. And not just by the EC.

    There is gerrymandering and other forms of cheating within states.

    We have a president who has worked for election support from outside the USA.!!

    And, conisider Washington, DC - which has a higher population than 2 other states, yet has NO CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATION! In fact, even their budget must pass review by the federal House - which DOES NOT represent them.

    Republicans have worked systematically to use unfair and illegal method to capture office.
     
  25. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If my cat could type out the great American novel my life would be a lot different.
     

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