Nobody Hates Trump...

Nobody actually hates him.
They hate the fact that he's been given the power to do a great deal of irreparable damage.
There's no logic in putting the bull in the china shop... unless you hate the china.
And in this case...we are the china.

 

Afghanistan?

Well, the US had a rather nasty war to keep it together and there is a great deal of tension in the country today with semi-serious talk of secession. The EU seems to be crumbling, also.

Fortunately you can read the studies of sociologists and discover that they find that diversity erodes social cohesion. In diverse communities people "hunker down", contribute less to charity, become disengaged in community activities, etc.

You can find a discussion and links to studies here:

https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/ethnic-diversity-and-social-cohesion/

I doubt it is inevitable. It is certainly undesirable. That is why nationalism is increasingly popular with the losers in globalization, i.e. the non-elite.

 

I see, you are a member of the global elite. Just kidding.

But what good has globalization done for you, or do you just like the idea?

 

Ah, so we are still left with the fact people do hate Trump in spite of your assertion they don’t. Are they being less than candid, or are they just confused? Did you listen to the piece of music I linked to? You’re going to have to spin a better yarn to convince me “nobody” hates Trump. Would you subscribe to the theory nobody hated President Obama?

 

You know there's a guy on this forum called william kurps that speaks your language. You should probably talk to him. Neither of you make any effort at all here. You're both just looking for attention. You two would be great together. Maybe you two start your own thread and leave this one be

 

I’m genuinely interested in why you started the thread and what the objective is. Now if you had said “I don’t hate Trump” or “not everyone who dislikes Trump hates him”, it would all make a little sense. But the use of a hyperbolic or less than accurate statement to criticize a guy who’s disliked for going the same is baffling.

I find it amusing when OP’s are upset when others attempt to discuss the actual intellectual content of a post. If someone is here to post dog doo analogies and just have people ooh and ahh, and not delve into the heart of the matter, wouldn’t they be the one just seeking attention? What is the point of writing on a forum if one doesn’t want the content of their post analyzed and discussed? I’m here to learn. I can’t learn if other members don’t elaborate on their ideas or answer further questions or clarify their positions.

Anyway, enough of that. If I say “everybody” loves Trump, would that qualify as an accurate statement?

 

Here again my answer to your question...

If you wish to debate as you claim, then explain why that perception is false.

There has been plenty of discussion in this thread...I'm still waiting to hear yours. But from past conversations, I know you will wander off to some other dimension and start talking about child pornography. Likewise Mr. kurps will start posting pictures of transvestites.

Not upset at all. Disappointed...yes. There are things I wish to learn here. You on the other hand, seem convinced you have all the answers but your replies prove otherwise.

If my analogy is the problem, then explain why it doesn't apply.

Exactly my question to you.

Is it really the man Trump that they love? Some of his supporters here say no. They just love what they perceive he has accomplished.
I believe you expressed that same opinion yourself.

 

Well, because there are endless examples of people who claim to hate Trump. I posted some. You say they don’t. I’m just curious as to why I should believe you over them.

Ummmm, who’s wandering off?

If I had the answers I wouldn’t need clarification as to why people who claim to hate Trump actually don’t in your opinion. Why do you think your speaking on their behalf has more credence than their own statements?

I expect your analogy reflects your feelings about the Trump presidency. I don’t think it applies to all others. Especially to those who proclaim their hatred of Trump.

My position is clear. I’ve asked questions to clarify yours. But you seem unable to answer them directly.

Is it accurate to state that everyone loves Trump?

I approve of some of his actions. That’s been my position since inauguration. I’m quite pleased that he is cleaning up some of the trade policy doggie doo from past administrations, for example.

 

You've already answered your own question right here....

Now please focus on this response....

People including yourself do not love the man Trump.
They love what they perceive him to be doing.
Nobody hates Trump. They hate what they perceive he is doing.
Everyone got it so far except you.

 

Why can’t you answer the question?

We are still left with the people who claim to hate Trump. Why are you avoiding that? It’s quite obvious your OP is the equivalent of Trump’s statement about shooting someone and losing no voters.

Of course I don’t love Trump. I’ve never claimed to. But many claim to hate him. You’ve presented a false equivalency as argument. Are they just too dumb to know what they are talking about?

 

Yes we have all used the word hate to describe a feeling we have about something. I can say I hate wasting time playing your little word games.
It's something we say out of frustration most of the time.

No not dumb all. They're upset with what he's doing. That's how they express themselves.

Yes. Good observation. And we've already discussed it here. There's nothing wrong with his analogy.
He spoke from his heart when he said those words. I never believed he meant it literally.
My concern is that what he said might not be just an analogy.
Eventually we'll find out if he has broken any laws. If he has...
what will be the response of his voters? Will they hold him accountable?
I doubt it. They will deny his wrong doing, cheer him on...and say they're making America great again.

 

Ok. That helps. I don’t think it’s word games when hate is involved. I’ve been accused of hating brown people because I oppose illegal immigration. What your saying now is hate is never really applied to a person, but that it is projected onto a person out of frustration. So white supremacists don’t hate racial groups or those of Jewish descent? Nobody hated President Obama, they just disliked his policies and those policy’s effect on their lives? I’m not so much disagreeing with you as I am confused as to why other so called haters are viewed differently.

Sure. Sort of like if someone said they hated President Obama. Nobody hated him. Just didn’t like negative effects of the ACA. Or if someone says they hate any American of African descent. They don’t really hate anyone. They are just frustrated with an action taken by said person or by something projected onto said person not based on reality. I guess that makes sense.

I actually met a guy in 2009 who claimed to hate the president at that time. He wanted to tell me all about it. I let him go until he started veering away from politics to more personal attacks. Before I got him shut down he’d made a pretty good case in support of his statement of hate. He certainly lost my respect. It’s fascinating to learn now the man was just airing his justified frustration with that administration’s policies. It was simply a patriot vocalizing his love and concern for his country.

I’ll have to remember all this and keep it in mind so that next time I hear someone hate on Warren, Pence, Mayor Pete, Muslims, Kaepernick, etc., I’ll not be so quick to judge the personal attack. I’ll tell myself the vitriol is necessary justified frustration with the object of wrath.

I’m glad you cleared that up. I’ve noticed many seemed to take that statement by Trump literally. Especially the part about not losing any voters. I think it’s important to realize that’s not literal either.

Well, the odds are good that if he’s broken laws some will not care. It’s precedent now. What’s fair for the goose is fair for the gander and all that. Politicians haven’t been held to the rule of law since Nixon. Does that bother you in general or just if it’s someone of a different political bent who’s doing the law breaking? Do you have any ideas on how to fix the problem besides continuing to vote for the least lawless candidates? And how do we know who is the least lawless?

 

No need for me to comment on your ideas individually...
I think they are all accurate, to point, and if addressed could be part of the solution.
"Does that bother you in general or just if it’s someone of a different political bent who’s doing the law breaking?"
As a teenager witnessing how those entrusted with law enforcement deliberately and with premeditation can abuse the law
and get away with it, I don't believe it is confined to a single political party.

"Do you have any ideas on how to fix the problem besides continuing to vote for the least lawless candidates?
I see one of the most damaging contributions to the problem being the spread of misinformation.
Here is part of a previous thread....

As you can see by the font frustration had taken over.
The complete conversation seems to explain how "alternate facts" can be mistaken for truth unintentionally.
The conversation starts in this general vicinity...http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/85-15.565509/page-17
maybe a little before that.
Here is how it ended...

Putting the whole thing in context you can see how, at least sometimes, there is really no wrong doing intended when misinformation is created.
It's what happens after it is spread that is destructive.

 

I am so flattered you cant out debate me but this topic is about Trump not me..

 

my bad

 

No I am really flattered, guess I am becoming a legend here in just a short time.

Now enough about me back to the topic shall we?

 

Agreed

 

Trumpsters like to accuse Democrats of hating Trump & having there every political action based on & grounded in that hatred. But such accusations are totally inaccurate. I'm sure there are individuals out there who literally "hate" Trump, but many Democrats are simply concerned about the impacts Trump is having on the human rights ideals America has been gradually working toward since its inception. Speaker Pelosi has often repeated her personal feelings toward Trump do NOT include hatred. But she is concerned by his ineptitude & disregard for those human rights America supposedly stands for. I am a Democrat, & I have often reiterated my own feelings toward Trump, which don't include hatred in any form, but a deep & sincere concern about Trump's arrogant egotism, & his disregard for long established institutions of government based on our Constitution. Over time, I have gradually become increasingly concerned over the blind obeisance of his fellow Republicans. The Republican Party has morphed from a political party into a personality cult--an evolutionary track not uncommon for extremist right wing groups. It happened in Spain, Italy & Gemany during the 1920s & 1930s. It is a trademark of dictatorships.

 

The number 3 House Democrat, James Clyburn, just said this about President Trump:

"Hang him!"

No hate there eh?

Oh, and your hyperbolic rant leaves out children singing for their savior, Obama.

 

Lol I don't think Trump would mess wit De Nero

 

1. If your concern for government debt was strong enough to force you away from Kasich, how do you support Trump after he & his Republican minions have driven our national debt to its highest level in history? Trump is far worse than Kasich would have been. Furthermore, Kasich has integrity, & showed a willingness to work across the aisle to get things actually done. Trump never does.
2. I share your concerns as stated in your #2 above. But I recognize that the answer to the problem lies with Congress, & not the President. I also know that Both GW Bush & Obama, repeatedly asked their Republican Congresses to pass a new Immigration Law to resolve issues around the immigration question. But Congress refused to act--for BOTH Presidents. Then came Trump, who decided he & not Congress had the power to stop immigration. The Constitution gives the President the power to enforce the laws, but not to make the laws. Trump has been told this repeatedly, but refuses to listen. Trump's intent may be OK, but his methods include the abuse of human rights. Since World War 2, America has increasingly stood for widening human rights everywhere. America never claimed those rights were for Americans alone. But Trump acts as if they were, & treats non-Americans as if they were somehow less deserving of their rights, or even somehow sub-human altogether. That's where he fails. Yes, we need to gain control over our borders. Yes, we have to stop illegal entries. Yes, we have to reject & block criminal elements from entering. But we have to do all of this while respecting human rights for everyone. Otherwise, we become hypocrites by teaching ideals we ourselves refuse to live up to.
3. I disagree with your conclusions here. It may at times seem to be so, but enforcing the law while simultaneously respecting human rights can sometimes be challenging, & look like failure. But if America is going to teach human rights, then we owe it to ourselves & to the world at large, that we live up to our own sermons.
4. Again, I disagree. Hillary was Secretary of State for about 4 years, & regarded as a very tough one even by Republicans. Republicans only began finding fault with her after she announced she was considering running for President.
5. From my perspective, we are living in a world where increasing populations coupled with new technologies are forcing all of us to have more to do with each other than ever before. That forces us to find ways to communicate, trade & interrelate with each other in peaceful ways. The internet is a major force for uniting us across across national borders that seem to have less real meaning over time. To be sure, we must be alert to & responsive to any threat from unwanted invasion by a foreign power, but we must also learn to live in a more global society, which recognizes & respects the truth that there's only one race in this world--the human race--& we are all a part of it.
6. I don't know what it is that your regard as "security gains." I agree, we must protect ourselves from unwanted foreign intrusion, but we must also continue being a part of the ongoing globalization of humanity, or risk being left behind. This is no time for isolationism. Rather, just the opposite. Trump is wrong in shedding the leadership positions carved out by his predecessors after WWII. His attempts to do that have left him looking inept, arrogant & out of touch with reality. Trump is NOT the kind of man we need to move American into the developing global world.

 

You can't condemn a dog for simply doin dog stuff...unless he bites somebody

 

1. My suggestion was intended to help, not attack or demean. Honestly, it is true for you, me, or anyone else, that directing our lives into more positive goals & attitudes, is a positive thing. Trump enjoys & habitually practices, cutting off the heads of those around him to make himself appear taller or better. Such behaviors are not helpful to America or Americans, & Trump is a negative force in our lives, for our nation, & for this period of history. You can do better.
2. Globalization is happening--it's inevitable--no matter how we feel about it. No great historic change came without painful events attached to it. Yes, there have been failures in the process, but that's no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water. Globalization has MANY positive elements that will make all our lives better. We need to fix those things wrong, but hold onto the positives a global society offers--& there are many.

 

You stated I doubt it is inevitable
I found this chart...theoretically the mixed race should continue to increase.
So what would be the point of delaying globalization?
Is it really worth starting a war over?
You stated That is why nationalism is increasingly popular with the losers in globalization, i.e. the non-elite.
Who are the losers in globalization?
Are Trump supporters the losers?

 

Any organization that includes humans has some measure of corruption, like a bushel of apples has one or two apples that are bad. The answer isn't to toss the bushel into the trash, but to find & fix the problems. All of the governmental institutions we have, were created for a purpose. All have had incidents of abuse by individuals within them, but that doesn't negate their purpose or the service they provide or the good they do. The best answers in life aren't the ones that boils everything down to black & white. Most of life is in the graduated gray area. We must stay open to that truth, & work with the whole, rather than get caught up in the emotion of the defective parts. Recognize that everything has a mixture of positive & negative energy. It's natural. Work with that for outcomes that benefit as many as possible. Simplistic answers & responses aren't in the best interest of anyone.