Is Neo[Atheism] a Rational Religion?

Well yes, I often want you to spell out exactly what it is you mean, for several reasons. It is often less obvious what you mean than you seem to think. It is also useful to make perfectly clear which parts we agree on and which parts we disagree on. Also, I disagree with some of the things you seem to find obvious, if you leave them out, you will miss my entire point and get on the merry-go-round instead of finding out what our disagreements are.

Maybe the problem is still that you have misunderstood my disagreement. I do not need your stress to figure out what you mean, doing so will just make you look flustered. What I need, and what I've been asking you for, is your justification to believe that it is so. I have accused you of failing to answer my questions way more than I have accused you of sounding angry, but you don't seem bothered by that.

As above, the stress doesn't help at all, if I disagree with the above, I shouldn't just write my opinion in bold (although I can do so if you think it'd help), but we need to examine the assumptions which lead to what you're saying.

So, how many gods do an agnostic believe exists? Given that some atheists who lack belief in God are agnostics, do they also believe that no gods exist?

 

PLONK!
I have said nothing about agnostic,
this discussion is about neoatheism not agnostic.

I disagree with your incessant spamming of the discussion with your off topic strawman bullshit. I lay out exactly what I mean you ****ing ignore it and complain I dont define it, more intellectual dishonesty.

1) For a neoatheist who 'does not know' if a God exists, how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
2) For a neoatheist who 'does not know about God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
3) For a neoatheist who 'lacks belief', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
4) For a neoatheist who 'lacks belief in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
5) For a neoatheist who 'is without God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
6) For a neoatheist who 'absent belief in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
7) For a neoatheist that identifies 'as an atheist', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
8.) For a neoatheist who 'does not believe in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
9) For a neoatheist who 'disbelieves in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0

10) For an 'agnostic-atheist who does not know', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0

agnostic atheist is bullshit but the number of gods is still the same, 0

in ALL cases the answer is ZERO!
The bottom line does not give a **** about their psychological state, none believe in a God.

 

I'd be surprised if any neoatheist is going to be crazy enough to take this on since it covers every version of their mantra and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt their mantra is nothing more fanatical distinctions with no difference.

As I said and have now proven, all of it is SEMANTIC, since the result is the same in every case, zero Gods believed in. If I missed any of the popular mantra feel free to notify me, n othing ,more to see with the semantics argument.

 

A discussion on one topic can shine light on another. Some people who are atheists according to Flew are agnostics, so in some cases, the answer will be the same. Therefore, it'd be quite useful to hear you say what agnostics think.

It'd also be useful to get a little more context of how you use your number line in general. For instance, I challenge the idea that your one dimensional number line is valid at all. If an agnostic answers "I don't know" or in some other way fails to answer, then that shows that your statement that there can be no non-numerical answers is wrong, and that has great impact on the question you want me to answer.

If you think it's off topic, then chances are you still haven't understood my criticisms. As I've mentioned, laying out what you mean is not enough. In discussions where we actually care about things being true (like scientific or philosophical papers), we don't just write the opinion over and over, we provide the logic behind it and we meet potential criticisms.

I guess you didn't read my paragraph about how just repeating your argument is missing the point.

 

By the same logic, an agnostic who 'does not know' if a God exists, how many Gods do they believe exists? 0

Congrats. You now grasp the concept of agnostic atheism and have tacitly admitted you are one. Let me know where to mail the graduation hat.

 

Perfect timing!
My next post aside from responding to swnson was going to be a nicely detailed expose on how incredibly illiterate the neoatheists are that think they can also be agnositic. But I am not done dealing with swennsons fallacies and his complete disregard for staying on topic when proven wrong.

 

I look forward to additional mutually exclusive claims that fall apart at the slightest scrutiny. You should reflect on the fact that you've already argued that not knowing if there is a God means believing in 0 gods.

You have said you are an agnostic. Now you are saying that any difference between agnostics and atheists is "bullshit."

 

Yet you just got through "proving" any distinction between the two is purely semantic. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

 

thats right keep em coming! Thats what this thread is about, how over the top irrational neoatheists are. The gift that keeps on giving!

 

Except according to your definitions, I'm not a neoatheist. You've said neoatheists have to be materialists. I'm not a materialists. And there's nothing "irrational" about pointing out your inconsistencies.

 

nope said no such thing, another typical screwed up interpretation of what I said.

nope your posts are definitely in the neoatheist camp from what I have seen so far.

I thought you claimed to be an agnostic, but I dont believe you even know the condition that must be met to be an agnostic LOL

Take your time!

 

Yes, you have indeed claimed that neoatheists are materialists. You've also claimed they can't believe in values, and since I do believe in values, that must mean I'm not a neoatheist.

That's probably because your definition of what a neoatheist is changes with the wind, whatever you currently need at the moment with no kind of consistency. Which, come to think of it, seems to apply to all of your definition.

Ah, this is the part where you refer me to definition 4c from the 36th edition of your favorite dictionary of the day and play make-believe that it is the only definition . . . then later claim you realize there is more than 1 definition . . . then switch back and forth between those two claims depending on the argument you feel like having at the time with no kind of consistency whatsoever. Sorry, but I've played this game before. It seems to be the only one you know.

 

I tell you this is NOT about agnostic and you completely disregard the fact you are off topic and spam more agnostic into the discussion to save face when proven wrong.

Proof 1) For a neoatheist who 'does not know' if a God exists, how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 2) For a neoatheist who 'does not know about God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 3) For a neoatheist who 'lacks belief', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 4) For a neoatheist who 'lacks belief in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 5) For a neoatheist who 'is without God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 6) For a neoatheist who 'absent belief in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 7) For a neoatheist that identifies 'as an atheist', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 8.) For a neoatheist who 'does not believe in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0
Proof 9) For a neoatheist who 'disbelieves in God', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0

Proof 10) For an 'agnostic-atheist who does not know', how many Gods do they believe exists? 0

agnostic atheist is bullshit but the number of gods is still the same, 0

in ALL cases the answer is ZERO!
The bottom line does not give a **** about their psychological state, none believe in a God.

Those are syllogistic proofs, not opinions, you have failed to refute even one of them. The only thing you 'reasonably' have left is to concede otherwise defer to some other topic, oh yah, like agnostic.
When people are in denial they need to see the proofs repeated as many times as they repeat their denial.
I crayola'd them with a 'proof' label to help you realize what you are reading.

You purposely use a deceptive label to pretend a proof is an opinion because you cant refute it, not even put a dent in it.

 

You've been offered a counterargument that calls your "proof" into question. Since you can't address that counterargument, the only reasonable conclusion for now seems to be that your argument is indefensible.

 

false, your fantasy, quote it.

 

take your time

 

And I have told you both that it is about agnostics, and that regardless of whether it is about agnostics, the answer pertaining to agnostics will help me answer the question as it pertains to non-agnostics. As such, the answer for agnostics is very useful, and you simply telling me otherwise does little to change that.

What makes you think these are proofs rather than opinions? For instance, I could write

Proof 1) For a neoatheist who 'does not know' if a God exists, how many Gods do they believe exists? They don't know​

and it'd be no less valid than yours, because each line doesn't describe how you've concluded the last number or "don't know" sentence. Certainly, adding "Proof" at the beginning of it does nothing to make it a proof.

Syllogistic proofs are according to wikipedia: "a kind of logical argument that applies deductive reasoning to arrive at a conclusion based on two or more propositions that are asserted or assumed to be true", yet your attempts at proofs contain neither minor nor major premises. It simply asserts that your conclusion is true, without justification.

 

not in this thread its not, now I suppose you will claim you cant read the title?

It may be very useful then by all means start your thread and learn about agnosticism.

Thats right, atheists are not rational so the answer to your version of 'proof 1' would not be 0 as expected it would be 5 Gods, yes neoatheist atheology the gift that keeps on giving!

oh? now you admit you dont even know wtf we are talking about? Thats why its so much fun debating with you, all you do is keep an argument going by posting the most foolish nonsense imaginable.

btw an atheist that does not know why they chose to be an atheist is nonsequitur.

again this is not about agnostics and its not about the neoatheist psychological state of mind it is about the belief a holds to the proposition "God exists", a concept that escapes neoatheists.

Please stop demanding your off topic garbage.

 

Which one? Swennson and I have both brought up the agnostic counterargument multiple times, which you keep running away from, likely because you are fully aware that it destroys your argument and reveals the radical inconsistencies of your beliefs.

 

@Kokomojojo

Hell, just to strip you off the "off topic" excuse, I'll make it even simpler:

Proof 1) For anyone who 'does not know' if a God exists, how many Gods do they believe exists? 0

Is it sinking in now?

 

I did open the "I dont know" door, I did not open the agnostic door,
I dont know is a psychological condition, and does not express an affirmative belief as is required to answer the question God exist.

Ok so answer the question, how many? 0, 1, 10, 25?

 

An agnostic does not know if God exists. That's literally what the word means. I'd ask how many Gods an agnostic believes in, but you refuse to answer. How many? 0, 1, 10, 25?

 

No its not what it literally means, as pertains to the question "does God Exist", for now I am limiting this to 'I dont know', not agnostic because no one here comprehends what an agnostic is, so we take baby steps, so set your presumptions aside and answer the question.

as I pointed it out "I dont know" does not express a belief condition, how many?

 

The same number as the number of gods you believe in. And how many is that? And do you know gods exist or not?

As far as comprehension goes, I've seen scores of definitions of agnosticism, I've read the work in which the word was first coined, and I'm familiar with the etymology. Historically, originally, popularly, and etymology, it means not knowing.

 

The number of Gods I believe in is completely irrelevant, please stop with the strawmen.
.
no you are not familiar with with it as Huxley applied it to questions such as this, you just proved that.

The correct response is 0, but you wont admit it since it proves all the atheological neoatheist mantra is semantics as I stated several hundred posts ago.

Caveat: That is the correct response for a rational person, but feel free to argue its not 0 at your own demise, but then you already know that dont you