The unlikely marriage between western liberals and Islam

Just as the muslim fanatic accuses the decadent west of being spawns of satan, it seems the christian west rejects that accusation and accuses Islam of being the true spawn of Satan.

Funny how both use the enemy of their same god (the one who would not serve) as the motivation for the other being infected by Satan's evil. Its almost as absurd as a catholic hating a protestant or a sunni hating a shia. Mine's bigger and better than yours.

What's ironic is how far away from true christian values trumpism actually is.

 

It seems that it does.

But of course that wasn't the only thing I said. The reason that liberals lack of religion matters is because they can't really understand it. They don't really think Muslims believe that stuff. Tell me, do you think that the government leadership in the Islamic Republic believes in the prophecy of the 12th Iman, or do you think they regard it as children's fables?

 

I provided data in post #23.

 

But, that didn't support your view.

 

You have NO point here whatsoever. Atheists are VERY aware that people strongly hold their religion as real.

 

the left supports the 1st Amendment, the right hates the 1st Amendment

Religious freedom for all to choose whatever religion they want for themselves, they do not believe the government should choose for you

 

it's so bad that fanatical Christians attack fellow Christians for "looking" Muslim

https://www.salon.com/2010/06/07/ground_zero_mosque_hate/

 

shhhhhhhh.

 

What exactly do you think my view is?

 

There is nothing outrageous to mock the catholic religion in France, it's beating a dead horse the only thing outrageous in that case is the cowardice of the said comedian. Furthermore, my point was to show the double standarts and cowardice of that kind of people. I've met a lot of leftists very agressive toward the catholic and fearfull of muslims.
Unfortunatly, it prove the point of the terrorists, people now hesitate to mock their religion. A similar point could be made with judaism.
You will never see that kind of coward being outrageous with the islamic religion, he likes too much his head on his heads. Which is giving poor signals to the catholics on the way to get respected.

By the way, I exagerate a little bit. Not all leftists want to destroy that civilization, but most want. The point of the left is not to just solve problems, it's to create a new world. During the french revolution, the "cultural revolution" in communist china, or under the reign of terror of the red khmers, thousands of books were burned, hundred of monuments were destroyed.
Often, they can't bear the view of the old world, of it's temples.

The left is in the category of the "new man" ideology. The point is to create a new type of human, more perfect. That ideology dominated during the french revolution, it was the point of communism through their "re education" camp, the point of fascism aswell, and it's also the point of trans humanists and feminists.
To create a new world, you have to destroy the old one.

That's why the left, with the complicity of a part of the right, support mass migration, because it was and it is a way to destroy the rather homogenous people that were french despite the migrations of poles and left.

During the burning of Notre Dame, plenty of leftists rejoiced of that.

So no, I won't rethink my whole post. I'm very harsh in my words, but I depict the reality as I perceive it.

 

Marxism has nothing to do with it. Muslims are not required to submit to man-made ideals and theories, wherever they come from. They submit to Truth, and that is a liberty that the West can never produce.

 

How do you define “Western civilization?” Muslims like Nike; Muslims like KFC; and Muslims like dollars. If you’re referring to 18th century texts written by European political theorists, well, it’s not like most Westerners have read those anyway....

 

I agree that once you realize Satan exists, the nature of the hatred in the world makes sense. There is an innate hatred and animosity within the "Godless" for that which is "of God", or of that which is important to God. An emotional reaction .... I felt it as an Atheist.

The animosity between the Arabs and Jews has its roots in the story of Ishmael and Isaac and is pretty interesting actually.

 

No I'm not referring to commercial products.

There isn't a pithy answer to what is Western Civilization and you know what it is anyway. It's the road from Athens to Jerusalem to Rome to Paris to London to all parts of the world, It's a lot of texts, not just the enlightenment ones, from the Bible to the Magna Carta and the Guttenberg press which lead to an explosion of all kinds of viewpoints. It's the scientific method, it's logic, it's freedom....a fuller picture would take volumes, and those are already written anyway.

No, most Westerners have not read those texts, but they live with the results of them. Our societies and institutions are based on them.

And these are not yours. Your society had a different path, and is different from ours as a result.

 

This western liberal accepts neither ideologies in religious philosophy. According to our Constitution all religions are free to worship as they please and that is a liberal philosophy but you will find the problems of intolerance by the religious groups who seek national hegemony...So you have it wrong with your assertions that Judean-Christian religions are doomed by the Muslims because the big three are not the only religions in the world so for some reason they are excluded from this eschatologist thesis.

 

I concur since there are clearly religious members and organizations of the left side of the political sphere..

 

Okay, but I don’t see how Muslims can hate the scientific method, logic, or freedom. Individually speaking, these concepts are not inherently evil from an Islamic perspective. They’re just there. It’s just that the West decided a long time ago to take them as absolutes.

You said it yourself, your societies are “based on them.” This explains the erosion of your civilization, because instead of having One Absolute to ultimately refer to, you’re left with relative concepts that are inherently flimsy.

“I think, therefore I am.” This is a very limited approach to human advancement, and yes, this is what the bedrock of the West constitutes. It’s very different from “I am, therefore I think,” which is what I’d argue Islamic civilization was founded on.

 

Well there is more than one reason the West is eroding. That's not limited to Western societies. The Ottomans were a great power once. But yes, the West used to have divine authority, now it doesn't, and it hasn't figured out how to be a self sustaining civilization without it.

 

I don't know France well enough to comment on issues there. I don't know who or how many actually cheered the fire, for example. It hits me as a tragedy. I find it hard to believe that being glad about that would characterize any significant political movement purely on the grounds of religion.

Here, there are people who attack religion in general, but I know of nobody who was in anyway happy about that fire.. As an atheist, I see attacking religion as wrongheaded and unproductive, especially from a political standpoint. Our constitution demands a certain divide between church and state and I certainly support that.

Of course, there are very real problems in the Catholic church. The problems I refer to have serious legal grounding that has to be pursued. Those who demande that be pursued aren't limited to atheists - it includes many Catholics.