Holden announces it is leaving Australia, job losses

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bush Lawyer, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would've preferred we let them die a decade or so back instead of bailing them out. Sounds like you guys bailed em out a bit too.

    Nothing should be too big to fail.

    I'd recomend buying a Toyota. They're made in the US now more than GM, Ford or Dodge.
     
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  3. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    Not merely 'a bit.' Billions! Imagine how far this will drill down into our economy. After the direct employees of GM here, then go to the Aussie GM dealers and their employees. Sure GM says it will compensate dealers (yeas...let's see the money, honey) but what will GM offer to all the people affected? SFA.

    My Brother's son in law posted on FaceBook today...'Anyone want to buy my Colorada?' That was a good metaphore. Bastards.
     
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  4. Wonder4575

    Wonder4575 Newly Registered

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    Holden exiting the Australian market is sad from cultural perspective but from a business perspective, good riddance.
     
  5. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    "Cultural," huh? "Good riddance" to a relevant chuck of our economy? Huh. Why did we hand these bastards billions of assistance to stay here? And...we are letting them run. Jaybuz!

    This is not "culture." It is excellent marketing.

     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    The entire auto industry is in trouble and it is a victim of the Wall Street Bankster's GREED OBSESSION.

    The price of new vehicles has far exceeded the wage growth of the average consumer thereby causing many of them to keep whatever they have or buy 2nd hand instead. The 2nd hand market is strong because with the improved rust proofing and computer aided engine management they have become way more reliable that used cars in the past.

    Then there are the Millennials who just don't have the money for vehicles because they are crushed under the burden of college debt which essentially keeps them out of the new car market.

    Another factor is the failure to maintain and improve infrastructure so roads are more densely packed with vehicles which makes it a far less pleasant experience to commute. Cheaper to live close enough to wherever you work for public transportation and then just rent a vehicle if you want to go somewhere on occasion.

    Seeing GM in financial dire straights does not surprise me in the least either. They replaced engineers with bean counters a many decades ago and make vehicles that look and feel like cans of soup on a supermarket shelf. Compare that to Ford who took a $3 billion gamble on producing a completely redesigned F1 pickup for the future. Anyone in the market for a new one is going to do the math and figure out that GM has nothing to offer those consumers. There is not a single vehicle in the GM line up that does not have a better alternative from another manufacturer IMO.
     
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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Bloo
    Bloody pocket stuffing corporate leeches at the top of these companies deserve a good tax hike right where it would hurt the most!
     
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  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    (((((Sigh))))j

    That and these boys are seeing the writing on the wall that says “Electric is coming”
     
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  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    And the tax payers down there are don't understand that you don't fix bad management with government money. We haven't learned that up here either. Sorry to hear you were screwed by GM just like we were.
     
  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Ford, Toyota and VW are definitely reading that writing on the wall IMO.

    What I want to see is a corporation like Tata producing an EV for $3,000. It will be a piece of crap but it will sell in 3rd world nations and become more popular than the Beetle. It only needs a range of 50 miles and be a 3 door hatchback with a solar panel on the roof for self recharging if it cannot be plugged into a reliable power source. Sell a separate home solar powered recharging panel for another $500 and they won't be able to make enough to keep up with demand. Produce a cheap pickup version with a slightly longer range and "luxury" model with a longer wheelbase and 4 times the range and every taxi driver will want one.

    Granted they will never get past vehicle safety standards here in America but something like that will effectively send all of the big automakers packing and it will ensure that 3rd world nations are no longer screwed over by the Fossil Fuel cartels.

    Even if Tata or Mahindra could only do it for twice the price it would still be revolutionary.
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    China is nearly there

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_China

    https://qz.com/1517557/five-things-to-know-about-chinas-electric-car-boom/

    They have a huge incentive - reduce pollution within the cities
     
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  12. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    China also has a huge advantage being a Communist government they don't have to deal with competing special interests.

    Good thing for the planet but I suspect that BYD e6 is way overpriced for what you are getting. $20k would be more acceptable IMO given their less than stellar reputation when it comes to quality.
     
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  13. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I remember driving Commodore in the late '80s when I was living down under.... why am I lying? I do not remember driving my Commodore, there was nothing special about driving it, just like there was nothing special about driving Pacer or Pinto :D
     
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but not much that comes out of China IS quality
     
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  15. Wonder4575

    Wonder4575 Newly Registered

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    $2.17B in subsidies to Holden between 2001 and 2012 which delivered $30B to the Australian economy.

    Keep in mind it was never a level playing field because some of the most popular cars in Australia, Toyota, VW , Hyundai/Kia are all subsidised by their governments with amounts that make 2.17 look like chicken feed.

    The subsidies were good policy at the time.
     
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  16. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your linked article says Holden car sales had sunk from 21.6% of the market in 2002 to only 3.7% at present. What did you expect?
     
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  17. Wonder4575

    Wonder4575 Newly Registered

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    It all came to the expansion of car choices available. Pre 2000 you could get a compact, a hatch, an SUV or a station wagon. Buyers now want to choose between 3 sizes in every variant with 2 petrol, a diesel or hybrid choice for each.

    A small producer was never going to survive and the subsidies provided a soft exit
     
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  18. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    GM has always had financial problems. They gave way too much to the unions.

    Idiots.

    I only buy Nissans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  19. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    I suppose I expect them to hand back the billions they took from us to stay here.
     
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  20. Shonyman32

    Shonyman32 Well-Known Member

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    Corvette?
     
  21. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those billions provided jobs and income into your country. But if the sales aren't there, they aren't there.
     
  22. Red Lily

    Red Lily Banned

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    They were so wrapped up in V8 Commodores they were blind to the real market.
     
  23. Wonder4575

    Wonder4575 Newly Registered

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    Do you think all that money is in a suitcase somewhere just waiting to be cracked open by greedy corporate raiders? <Rule 3>

    Every last cent of that money was spent helping Holden to remain viable through a very hard set of circumstances, mostly the result being a very small player in a market full of titans who are also being subsidised by their own countries. The subsidies paid to Holden allowed them to produce cars for another decade which pumped 50 billion back into the Australian economy. The alternative would have been for them to crash out of the market which would have been devastating. I don't like this, I don't like corporate subsidies but a gradual wind-down and exit is much better than the alternative, so try to be a bit more nuanced than 'evil company took our money'.

    <Rule 3>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2020
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  24. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    You seem to forget that Holden is General Motors, an American Company.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2020
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  25. Wonder4575

    Wonder4575 Newly Registered

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    Did the subsidies go to America?
     

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