My point was sound and reasonable. If you don't want to get pregnant don't do what causes you to get pregnant. How could that be moronic hyperbole?
So what. They have to live their lives. We should not care about motivations. It's not our business to dictate the lives of every human on earth. No comment on your post about god supposedly knowing everything about everyone before they were born? Or even if they would be born? Because, it can't be changed. A pregnancy can't possibly go through to success if god knew before hand it would not. Correct? So, all that transpires is already known and can not be changed.
I appreciate your premonitions as to being a major part of your belief. However, I know you aren't the only one to have premonitions. How about those who have premonitions in Asia, Middle East, or Africa? I doubt they have come to the same conclusion you have about the God of Abraham. In fact, many may have not heard of that god. But they still believe their premonitions are how the world/life/afterlife has to be. And completely different from yours. How should people take all the different culture viewpoints of life or no life after leaving this earth? Why should everyone follow what your premoniions led you to believe?
The Genesis account is a retelling of the Sumerian account - and these are truly strange stories. There are numerous "double helix" depictions similar to the above - and the story being told is one of the creation of humans. Not sure if you are familiar with the Atra Hasis text - Gilgamesh Epic. - We have numerous accounts - (in fact Gilgamesh is one of the (may even be "the") the oldest written poem/story in existence. You have what you believe - you have what I believe - but, if you are a Sumerian/Akkadian/Elamite - some dude living in UR in 2000 BC - you believe that -- /Gods/Aliens/Sky People - came down from the sky - because they needed to mine Gold for their atmosphere - These entities called themselves "Annunaki" - and they named their creation "Adamu" which means something like "from the earth" but that comes later in the story. The labor was hard - and the workers complained to Enlil. Enlil (son of Anu) convened a council before Anu - and brought the petitions of the laborers to the head dude -Anu. Enki - the other son of Anu - was a great thinker/scientist - suggested a solution. That solution was to create a hybrid. He selects 7 Annunaki women as incubators - there is a mixing of blood and "Earth" - as depicted in stele's like the one above - and thus the Adamu was created. The rest of the story is equally fascinating - but will stop here as this is what we are discussing. So if you were a dude living in UR - round 2000 BC and the near east in general that is where you believe you came from. ( Abraham was from UR - side note) To me this does not necessarily mean the soul is imparted at this point. Its possible - but keep an open mind by recognizing that it is possible that this is not the case. I talked of having a science based approach - and I claim that existence is eternal. Having had the experience discussed previously - I have thought about this a fair bit - it is also true that I am a bit of a mad scientist having used electricity in an attempt to enhance bioremediation of hydrocarbon contaminants in soil. Humans are made of matter and energy. In which part does the soul reside ? Since at the subatomic level matter and energy transform - one into the other - and for simplicity - I will use ether term Energy to refer to both - the soul being some manifestation that arises out of the two - some manifestation of the two. The one thing we know for sure - and perhaps the only thing - is that "I think therefore I am". At some point - some configuration of matter/energy came together - in a certain configuration - opened its eyes and knew it existed. Prior to this point - call it pre-evolution - there was a finite probability that this configuration of matter would form - and the soul be manifested out of that configuration. If we assume Time is infinite - and energy exists (such that things are not frozen in time) all finite probabilities will occur - not just once - but an infinite number of times. This is why I claim the soul is infinite. This does not help answer our question of when the soul is imparted - is the DNA that configuration ? - or is the resulting structure that is created that configuration ? - from which you manifested. It would be an understatement to say I had a strict religious upbringing - never thought much about the experience until in my teens. Had happened when I was 8-9 ? German Measles - Fever way high - parents worried - couldn't get cool - so hot - unbearable - skin peeling off my dick like a shake shedding its skin. Fell asleep - had a dream - woke up in a cave - it was cool - finally - escape from the heat. Calm and relaxed water dripping of the roof of the cave... then into the light I went - got asked the question - when I woke up the next morning - Fever broke - life went on. I notice that I seem not to be as afraid of death as others - and I attribute that to my experience - dream or otherwise. To me it matters not if there is some force directing the show - a force/ Energy that itself knows it exists. In this case God would be everywhere - and all things part of the body of God. Not that it doesn't matter - but that knowing the above will not change my actions - whether true or not - although that knowledge has had an impact on my thinking which impacts my actions. Hope you can make sense of that despite the apparent contradiction. My believe is similar to a belief in Karma - or similar what the ancient Egyptian's called "maat". This was a kind of karmic balance such. At the end of days your deeds were weighed on the scales of justice - if found to light you were fed to the monster and that was it - if heavy enough you passed on into another phase of the journey. Question - if you were to be reincarnated - would you want to remember your past lives ?
Yes I remember that quote, and the very nature of faith is you can't argue with it - it's belief without evidence and it's immune to reason and that's the point, to insulate people against reason that would inevitably tear down the beliefs otherwise. It's not just your faith I mock - I mock the very concept of faith as a valid means of finding the truth. But the point being made wasn't mockery so much as that even a totally different perspective from mine, a Christian one, understands that a core principle of morality is not doing harm to others. Others are defined secularly by having a mind. With religion they have this concept of the soul, which complicates this kind of conversation about abortion.
Yeah, or drive safely to reduce your risk. Kind of like if you absolutely have to have sex, your world will end if you don't get busy, use birth control.
We all generally try to reduce the risk in our lives ... to a limit however. Your initial comment did not recognize this limit. Is sugar a "necessity" ? of course not - Sex and Chocolate are not necessities - but most everybody does it. . The solution is then not "well - just don't do it" - but when you do it - try to reduce the risk of harm.
this is a dumb comment. At risk getting in a car accident driving to work, risk getting into some other accident by walking my dog. These are just risks that exist. Going out and seeking sex nut going to help you get to work or walk your dog. if you're not doing it I have a kid you're doing it for the sake of it. So no. Wrong again. sugar is calories and calories are necessary if you don't have those you will starve to death. Excess sugar is not necessary. Further you don't risk of becoming pregnant because you eat chocolate. And on top of that if you are obese from overeating I would say you should probably avoid excessive candy and sugar. So it's the same thing. If you don't want the condition don't get yourself the condition. that's absurd. You can just not have sex that's possible, so yes that is an extremely effective solution. And then there's also birth control if you can't possibly live without having an orgasm every 3 minutes.
Your argument is complete nonsense - calories are easily obtained by something other than "Chocolate" - Chocolate is no more necessary than Sex. Both are done primarily for pleasure. Then you say - "you don't get pregnant from Chocolate" - no shart sherlock ?! - and you don't get heart disease from pregnancy - although both make you fat. What does that have to do with the fact that people take all kinds of risks that are not "necessary" - you are in denial of reality - and you completely failed to address the main point - which is that the question in more about reducing risk than the solution being "Just say no" - This is my last post on this issue - like pulling teeth with you it is.
I don't believe in souls. I mean, I wish they existed so that I could have one and those I've loved who have died could too, but wishing doesn't make me believe - unlike, apparently, some people.
NO one is under any obligation to use birth control. Yes, they risk getting pregnant just like one risks getting into an accident while driving. Getting into an accident because one risked driving does NOT take away one's right to bodily autonomy or medical aid....same is said for having sex and getting pregnant..
I have searched the scripture and have seen in them evidence using logic and find them to be true.....sometimes they go against my "wishes".
Yeah, well when I've asked for a detailed accounting of such evidence and logic it usually ends with an appeal to faith, which seems invalid as a way of finding truth. Using Christianity as an example, I also have trouble with the internal consistency of a system where an all-powerful, benevolent god worries so much about whether people believe in a sacrifice in order to decide to forgive or not forgive them. It's saving people on the basis of their ability to suspend reason rather than actual virtues.
It's obvious to me you've never spent time in prayerful study of the Bible. You put virtue before Grace it seems. What you call a sacrifice I prefer to see as a provision, or a way to overcome what is needed. If you want a detailed accounting, don't ask a human being. Ask God. Look for yourself.
Whatever it is that allows people to "talk" to a god, I don't feel that ability. Seems like I'd have to believe before doing that. And yes I put virtue before grace because grace makes no sense to me. And virtue should be measured by the capabilities of humans, not some perfect standard. I have studied the bible many years ago, but wouldn't call it prayerful.
I emboldened what you said because it is true. One has to understand there is something greater than oneself and approach the throne of God with humility. God resists the proud but gives Grace to the humble. If one puts virtue or "works" as #1....it gives a sense of pride and haughtiness which is the opposite of virtue. If one understands that the gift of Grace bestowed on us by God can make us Holy, then out of that Grace will come virtue and works, void of shame and pride. The reason I say "to study the Bible in a prayerful way" is because I have seen several self-professed atheists in this forum that read segments of scripture on their anti Christian blogs and all it does is boost their pride. When I read my Bible, I ask and expect to hear something Holy directly from God.....that is prayerful study.
And yet you're unable to convince more than a third of American adults a first trimester abortion should be restricted in any way.
Now prove that God doesn't put it the minds of the women who have said abortion. We know that over 50% of fertilized eggs never reach maturity. Most are the result of natural miscarriage. Apparently, it would then be a natural process of God that there be eggs not meant to reach maturity. These can come from a number of imperfections in the process. So we know that not every egg is perfect, nor every pregnancy meant to last. Prove that the need or desire of a woman to abort that particular fertilized egg is not part of God's plan. Waiting ...
