Putin Won't have it! WW2 was Wests' fault. Hitler was created and pushed to attack Russia.

Yes, we owe the Russia half the blame for starting WW2.

 

Yes, what US did to Dresden- they destroyed a nice city without any military industry. Good support in the war!

 

West has to be blamed for the starting the war more than Soviet Union.

 

So Hitler and Stalin make this military pact.
Both invade Poland Sep 1939.
Stalin invades Finland
Stalin sends oil and munitions to Germany
until Hitler attacks Stalin.
How is the West to blame?

 

Wasn't that a British thing?
A clue with figuring out history - don't focus upon a single event.

If you want to challenge this bombing - 40,000 allied lives lost and
400,000 German lives lost. Was this enough to shut down Germany
industry and destroy morale?

 

They try and peddle the myth that they won WW II, which of course is just a lie; they were just hired help.

Apparently you've missed the 300 years or so of Russian imperialism, and the continued imperialism under Stalin, Khrushchev, and Brezhnev. Leopards don't change their spots, just because their political rhetoric changes

lol Indians were the primary breakers of treaties. That's another myth invented by hippies and left wingers, the poor mistreated native Americans n stuff. Same Pity Party mythology propagandists make up for the Russians.

Stalin was engaging in a huge buildup along the border, an invasion force. Great minds think alike, as they saying goes. They were both alike in their goals.

Sucks to be them; guess it was a really bad idea to keep threatening to bury us, only to end up a dependent client state relying on the West to feed them after their bankruptcy in 1973.

Don't know what 'shatef' means, but they screw the pooch themselves on any deal.

Wall Street loves the cheap labor. This latest broohah will tip the balance to bringing back industry here and givng Wall Street the finger it so richly deserves, traitors all.

 

It took a while to perfect the fighter escorts and increase their ranges, for one. Better engines, better fuel, etc. In any case, Hitler had to strip the East of planes and anti-aircraft guns to fight the bombing raids, leaving the Soviet with almost total air superiority. They could even use WW I biplanes for attacks, and of course the massive shipments of high quality aviation fuel their own aircraft couldn't even get off the ground without, and the British Merlin engines, alloys, etc.

 

Payback for their destruction and bombing of London and other British towns. The Germans did the same in WW I, so they don't get to whine about 'terrorism', and neither do the Japanese.

 

When did Russia offer to join NATO? I thought that either NATO or the EU had offered Russia membership but had been rebuffed.

Russia also had observer status & a permanent mission at NATO HQ for many years after the Cold War end. NATO tried very hard to keep communication open.

I am yet to hear a cogent reason why nations formerly invaded, occupied & colonized by Russia & the USSR should be denied access to a defensive alliance that offers them their best chance of repeating that terrible experience. If you look at the timing of former Warsaw pact/USSR 'Republics' wanting to join NATO it coincided with the extremely brutal second invasion of Chechnya. Of course, Russia had militarily intervened more or less continuously in former 'Republics' since the breakup of the USSR, but the scale and violence of that operation sent a chill through nations not yet a generation into their newly obtained freedom.

Putin has made it clear that he reserves the right to interfere in nations formerly subject to Russian domination as & when he pleases. The only nations safe from that (or from the worst of it, at least) are those in NATO. Had Ukraine joined NATO it would not have been invaded & dismembered. Many of those nations who were wise enough to seek that protection know they dodged a bullet, quite literally.

 

Hitler eventually purged the Party of the Strassers, and Goebbels and Himmler were faced with a choice of going with Hitler or joining up with the Social Democrats. They chose Hitler over ideology. Hitler at first went along with their agenda, but eventually decided to reject their pro-Soviet line in favor of occupying Russia, this was around early 1926-27 or so. Hitler wasn't in total control of the Party until 1932 or so and after, when he had his own private army of over a million street thugs, the largest in Germany. 10 time larger than the Wehrmacht, allowed only 100,000 by the Versailles Treaty.

 

Excellent point. The cognitive dissonance of the pro-Soviet propaganda here is awesome. As I said earlier, leopards don't change their spots.

 

More rubbish.

And, the swastika isn't a 'broken cross', it's an ancient Indian symbol, allegedly an Aryan symbol. What it means anyone can look up. It was common in jewelry, and even a New York City cab company's door symbol before WW II; it was everywhere, and had nothing to do with Nazism per se; it was adopted by them as a symbol of thier return to paganism and rejection of Christianity as weakening the Aryan Spirit n stuff. Anybody interested in what the Nazis thought of Christianity can find the Hitler Youth Handbook at archive.org and see for themselves.

 

Generally I can't be bothered correcting your laughably bad historical assertions, but since you dragged my nation into your fantasies I'm going to waste some time correcting you. I don't expect you to pay attention, but others may find some limited value in the correction.

I don't know which million Australians you think you are talking about, but they aren't soldiers & they most certainly aren't available to fight Germany.

First, around 560,000 Australians served overseas in WW2. That is the total for the whole war. At no time were that many available due to death, injury, capture etc.

Second, by late 1942 a comfortable majority of Australian personnel were conscripts. Their deployment was geographically limited to Australia and its immediate surrounds. There was a limited expansion of this to include bits of the Dutch East Indies, and that was quite controversial.

So, there is no million man Australian military to join you in any endeavour, let alone a war in Germany. By all means concoct fantasies about other nations, but kindly leave mine out of it. We served from start to finish in WW1, WW2, Korea and for most of Vietnam and Afghanistan. We did our bit.

 

The 'Master Race' stuff was actually a program started under Bismarck, and included such intellectuals as Max Weber. It was a program meant to create a cohesive nationalist spirit among a loose hodgepodge of German states and principalities in the then brand new German Federation. The Nazis took it to extremes later on.

 

Actually, I read that the German embassy tried to warn the public by buying ads in the newspapers but Wilson threatened those papers if they printed any of the ads.

 

And what exatly US should do to not act cowardly? Drop paratroopers ower Poland in december 1941. ?

 

Putin floated the idea to Clinton, and the Brits floated the idea to NATO.
Maybe you missed the part where I said I don’t blame the Poles for wanting to join NATO, considering their shared history with Russia. I love it when people cast stones at Russia for their aggressive actions in their own sphere of influence, and yet ignore our own.

 

In the 20th Century you can say the clock was reset on relationships with the rise of the Bolsheviks.
Every nation bordering Russia had every right to fear this violent and cruel ideology.
America simply hasn't didn't do enough to stand up to Russia once it entered Europe. Something
like 150,000,000 died when Communism took Russia and then was exported to Easter Europe, China,
Indo China, Africa and Cuba.

 

Oh you sure are showing me, other than the personal attack I edited out. We can't be having that.
Black army? I think you mean brown shirts. The Italians did black shirts. lol


Boy. I must have hit a nerve here... saying how it factually happened... That the US didn't do that much. But you know. Don't blame me for FDR singing a neutral act to chicken out of the war for years and years.

 

So far it's just hot air from you, buddy.

 

Oh good lord. You got me by not even half a year. Congrats.
Doesn't change a thing that FDR signed for to remain neutral and chicken out of the war.

The allied includes the USSR. And I am aware of their efforts. How the Nazi's got almost 3 million of them killed as POW's. The US doesn't even hit 1/2 a million in total.

That's because FDR signed the neutrality act, to chicken out of a war. You indeed don't go from neutral to invading... but that's the blame of the US and their policies.

 

Sounds like you’re living in the past. Some of us don’t want another Cold War. Do remember doing those pointless duck, and cover drills in the classroom, because I do. Do you want your kids , or grandkids living under that cloud?
Yes communism was a farce, and a tragic one at that. But, that ideology has been relegated to the dustbin of history, where it rightfully belongs.
Is Putin a bad actor? Most certainly. Is Russia a threat, in their own sad and pathetic way I guess, but they’re a gnat compared to China.
Now let’s talk about our own bad actors, the same cancerous tumors that lied this country into a war in Iraq, and lit the whole Middle East on Fire have been resurrected to help gin up the whole Red Scare 2.0.

 

Your historical illiteracy is astounding.

 

There is the example of alternative reality, in which a lot of russian citizens are living. In their reality "West" (US in other words) conspired with nazis to exterminate russians. And even nowadays US dreams how to destroy Russia. Paranoidal fewer holds millions and millions of russian citizens with the help of state propaganda.

 

Read post 100. I got nothing to add to that.

Because the wheels were already set in motion the way WWI ended.
The allied determined that Germany basically ends up being a slave state to them for demanding an impossible high debt. Not just money. Also in goods, like steel and coal, and livestock. They invaded Germany when it they couldn't produce that miracle. Enter that German guy whose plan was to solve it all. That predates your Stalin idea by years and yeas. WWI ended with a massive land grab and border alterations. Poland was created out of large parts of Germany with loads of Germans suddenly in an other country. Enter the guy whose plan was to solve it all.

And Putin puts the blame of that land grab, border alterations and the enslaving and so enter the guy who solves it... to Germany at the UK/France and US. And he has a point... if you know your history.