Why I am a libertarian, and you should be too

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by jcarlilesiu, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our founding fathers understood first hand the dangers of a strong central government. Many of them lived under the rule of the king of England, and understood the monopolistic dangers of giving too much control to a central body that inherently reduces citizens individual liberties.

    In our country, our constitution was drafted based upon the concept that a strong central government is directly tied to removal of individual liberty. As such, they drafted the constitution to limit the power of the fed and provide the majority powers to the individual states.

    This makes sense, especially considering their individual experiences.

    The idea is that the states individually provide options for people. If one state implements policies and legislation in which people dont align, they are free to move to states that better serve their expectations. If my state imposes taxation policies that dont serve me, I can move to a neighboring state that does. This opportunity doesnt exist when the federal government is the one establishing these policies. In these cases, people are stuck with only one option.

    Our entire economic system is based on free trade. If I offer a widget of better quality for a cheaper price people will buy it. If I dont, they will buy somebody else's product. This system encourages a marketplace best positioned to provide the best quality product at the best price.

    This same concept was the intent of the founders. Allow the states to compete for citizens and businesses, aligning with the demands and expectations of the citizens, ultimately giving the people the ability to choose.

    This concept of liberty and freedom is the best way to drive policy. People talk more with their dollars than with their votes.

    There has been an ever increasing push since FDR and among both parties to give the powers to the federal government. To provide people their demands through the ballot box, damaging the individual freedom to take their dollars to States that best serve them.

    Much of the Stated get funding for various purposes from the federal governemnt now. Public education in many locations is more dependent on the federal Department of Education than they are on property taxes paid by citizens to the state that provides the education.

    No where in our constitution does it give the federal governemnt the power to control education, nor make the states dependent on them to fund public education. This format is an upheaval to the very foundations for which our country was founded, and why most schools operate in much the same fashion and provide similar outcomes regardless of which state you reside.

    There are many examples of how the federal government is eroding the very concept of individual freedom from the states and removing our ability to dictate policy with our feet, our wallets, and our votes.

    I'm a libertarian, because this needs to stop. Return the power to the states.
     
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Actually the 10th amendment leaves activities not handled in the constitution to the states. It has been ignored since it was written and passed.
     
  3. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for "states rights", but had always associated the concept more with limited-government conservatives (admittedly, there aren't as many of those as I'd like) rather than libertarians. It's interesting to me that you think of it as a libertarian ideal.
     
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  4. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    "Libertarian" is a political party founded in the 1970s, not a political philosophy. The reason for mentioning this is that lots of statist/collectivist grifters hide under the label "libertarian," because they want legalized marijuana (that's just one common type of fake libertarian), or no communal/social legal responsibilities whatsoever while inconsistently and hypocritically benefiting or free-riding from a gigantic welfare state. Those aren't libertarians, just plain old Democrats or socialists.

    Constitutional Republican or "classical liberal" IMO means a strictly limited central sovereign with only a very few enumerated powers such as military, borders, treaties, rational interstate disputes and commerce, limited power to tax to support those things. NOTHING else. States hold some other powers. Local governments hold the most. That is how the Framers envisioned our government, but it is very different and massively overpowered, overlarge today.

    Government is a necessary evil because it requires force. Relatively more free, voluntary commerce, as the 19th-20th centuries proved irrefutably, is the superior, efficient and vastly more ethical "government" system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  5. BasicHumanUnit2

    BasicHumanUnit2 Well-Known Member

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    And it will inevitably get much worse because.....

    "All that is required for evil men to prevail is for good men to do nothing"

    And doing nothing is precisely what Americans have chosen to do.
     
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  6. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    I’m for personal freedoms and everyone else should be for what they believe in.
     
  7. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    Yep, every time there is a case before the SCOTUS involving 'feelz', the liberal hack judges always violate the Constitution they swore to uphold by ******** on the 10th Amendment.

    No where....absolutely no where in the Constitution does it talk about (federal) rights for gay marriage and abortion.
     
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  8. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there is some hope if Trump gets another term. Much of the unconstitutional holdover from the 20th century was done by a Progressive hegemony that essentially rewrote or blacklined the Constitution with no concern for the law whatsoever. More than any other factor, more of our country's problems stem to the illegality of that Progressive Judicial hegemony.
     
  9. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    How do you get around the problem of 'first violence'?
     
  10. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    All sounds good but my experience with libertarian views I've heard has been that libertarians aren't for state rights when states have laws they disagree with. Suddenly federal laws should be put in place to protect their views. The main two topics being abortion and drugs...

    I haven't associated state rights with libertarian ideology in quite a while.
     
  11. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    14th amendment for "gay rights". Right to privacy for abortion.
     
  12. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    And despite that...both are legal...:D
     
  13. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Heavily distorted interpretations ...typical activist judge twisting of the true meaning and intent.
     
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  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    States rights are critical. States compete with one another. If a citizen doesn't like how a state is governed, there ar 49 other ones to which to move. At the federal level we are stuck with what they do. What could be more libertarian than that? Personally, this libertarian would move about 90% of what federal government to the states, the private sector or the trash can.
     
  15. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    the 14th amendment is in crystal clear plain english.
     
  16. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Well...I need to hear that more often then. Usually I hear advocating of "freedom from state rights" by federal decree...whether it comes from federal courts, federal legislatures or executive decree.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    What libertarians support is maximum freedom. Not total freedom but the most freedom that is practical. While states like Michigan currently work to destroy freedom, it pales in comparison to what federal government does to freedom. There may be some confused libertarians out there that don't understand that. It is all about freedom, I hope.
     
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  18. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is. And men and women had equal protection of laws prior to gay marriage being seen as a constitutional right. Both had to adhere to the same rules.
    The amendment was twisted from it's original intent
    ....racial equality....to a new intent...making any union of choice equal.

    Not what the founders intended and certainly a huge twist of meaning.
     
  19. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    no they didn’t. A man could marry a woman, but not a man. That is not equal protection under the law. That is discrimination based on gender.

    It’s not just for racial equality. That’s why it says all persons, not races.

    What the founders intended is irrelevant. They never intended slaves to be free nor women vote.
     
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  20. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I also lean libertarian. Most freedom. Both republicans and democrats in this country want to limit our freedoms, just in different ways.

    The libertarians lose me when they go to loony-tunesville by thinking the Grand Canyon should be sold to private entities (or similar things like that.) That's when I steer my ship the other direction.
     
  21. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    A lot of conservatives I know feel the same way, including me.
     
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  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    People have allowed federal government to get out of control. I think it started during the Roosevelt administration. But both parties have contributed to it. Our dandy government has spent more this past couple of weeks than the entire national debt in 2000. And the voters cheer it on. Why? Because they are getting piece of it.
     
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  23. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    The clause was put in for the benefit of racial equality. Not to change the definition of marriage. It's been twisted to accommodate activists.

    Previous to the twisted ruling each of our two genders was treated the same...as each were restricted to marrying the opposite gender.
     
  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's libertarians and then there's Libertarians (just as there are with dems and pubs). Most conservatives and republicans can pretty accurately be described as libertarians as well, though there are certainly exceptions. The capital letters only denote party affiliation. I for example am close enough to a conservative, a republican, a libertarian, a minarchist... but I am definitely not a Republican or a Libertarian (or any other capital letter, really). The Parties are all ****, old rich men in bunkers smoking cigars and scheming how best to theatricize politics to rule over the common man, seldom supporting gun rights, individual liberty or local sovereignty. They're just different flavors of centralized bureaucratic establishmentarian oligarchs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  25. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    So you really don't believe in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA???
     

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