How we should treat China

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by pjohns, May 29, 2020.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We should get them to legalize marijuana and tell them it will make their workers more productive!
     
  2. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Fallacy of the complex question. (If you are unsure as to just what that is, then look it up.)

    More to the point: Certainly, "free[-]market capitalism" is not "obsolete" on this part of the political spectrum. But that does not mean (1) that we should ignore human-rights violations (such as are now going on in Hong Kong--and will probably go on, also, in Taiwan, next January; and (2) that we should allow our national sovereignty to be compromised by another country--and especially a hostile one.
     
  3. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Well, then--in your opinion--should we have imposed sanctions upon South Africa during its apartheid years?
     
  4. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    I am generation X. I am Caucasian but grew up in a variety of different neighborhoods. I was Conservative into my early 20's. As a kid I did experience oppression, harassment, and I was targeted in varying degrees. I experienced it from police many times, and I experienced it in complex racial issues too. I do not blindly follow educators on what they say, however, as an academic I do follow scholarly processes for reading, understanding, and disseminating information. This does not mean I am blind or deaf when Universities' make errors, or published works are significantly flawed. I can still see outside my window and interpret the news with proper context. I see racism at work in the US first-hand, and I have seen good evidence to my claims in this thread to date.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  5. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    I have many many times and I can find quotes for you too.
     
  6. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My family Doctor is Black. When I was a boy, no family doctors were black. I recognize her as my superior in that field. I was oppressed as a young man by my parents. They made me do things I didn't want to do. Now they are gone. Can I be a victim? Please tell me I can!! You and so many educators can do that I'm sure!!
    I am a Baby Boomer. I am a "war baby". We grew up hearing stories of personal sacrifice, valor, and persistence. It was beat into us!! We were oppressed.
    I am white but so far this year I gave it no thought until liberals once again started telling me my race is oppressive toward blacks.
    If you want oppression....go live in Japan. It is not racially inclusive. Better yet, try North Korea or Red China. If you want "oppression lite", just go to any Socialist Country.
     
  7. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    You are conflating a few issues here. You being a baby boomer is not an accomplishment in itself :) This is not merely a liberal or conservative issue, though both sides make it an issue too. I love Japan--great place to visit. I am going to the Philippines in December and Hong Kong in February.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  8. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well, take everything that we purchase from the Chinese, and calculate how many years it would take to find new suppliers outside of China. Pharmaceuticals for instance? Years.
     
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  10. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    True
     
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  11. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what "racism" do you see "at work" that the object of this could not stand up to--strongly, and vehemently--and thereby overcome? (Note: If I were still in my pre-retirement years--and if I had a black boss who was evidently targeting me just because of my race--I would certainly collect the evidence, and confront him or her with it. And I would do so promptly.)
     
  12. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Then please feel free to do so.

    Even if you happen to be correct, however, that would just prove that some right-wingers--some of them--are happy to have a pity party.

    I am not.

    (Oh, can you say "tuquoque fallacy?)
     
  13. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Pharmaceuticals--as I have mentioned previously--would be the hardest thing, by far.

    But just why should it require "years" to find other suppliers?

    In fact, why could we not immediately begin manufacturing these things in the US? (I remember, years ago, seeing the words, "Made in the USA," proudly displayed on many items.)
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I saw that many years ago too, but we've spent 30 years shutting down factories and shipping manufacturing overseas. If it was that easy to start manufacturing than third world countries could easily become first world manufacturing hubs. That seems to be a particularly Asian talent and I've seen no signs that we can replicate that.
     
  15. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    No need for the pity party--just a general human condition...
     
  16. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    Of course you would, and as you should... this does not address the systemic racism in the US.
     
  17. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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  18. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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  19. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya. I don't believe about anything promoted by news agencies anymore. But, I do believe in police bias and racism. I experienced it for myself once. I went to my friends house who is black. His wife was cooking diner, so we decided to go for a drive while we waited to listen to a mix tape. Evidently, there were swat teams and cops in plains clothes canvasing the neighborhood looking for some gang members. I got pulled over by 4 trucks of swat who were all hoowah. They were rejoicing at getting their supposed gang members high fiving. They called my friends wife and she was screaming on the phone while holding their 1 year old baby. They laughed hard at our misfortune. It wasn't until we were at the police station and seperately interogated that they realized they got the wrong people. No apologies, nothing. Those cops were all sorts of corrupt. They tore my car up looking for drugs or anything. Took it apart. Panels all over the back seat etc. I even had to pay to get my car out of impound.
     
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  20. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya too. Not all police are corrupt, racist, or abusers of power. I have friends and family in the Police.
     
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  21. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Well then, are you suggesting that (1) we have become, essentially, the equivalent of a third-world country; and (2) that we cannot "replicate" what Asians have already done (presumably--I suppose--because they are just so much more intelligent than most Americans are)?
     
  22. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    Actually a side-effect of being such a successful first-world country is the decline in domestic manufacturing, the increases in the service and sales sectors, as well as, shipping some manufacturing overseas. China is number 1 globally in manufacturing, and the US is number 2. China actually has the 4 largest banks in the world, but the US uses its banks assets more efficiently.

    It would be difficult to take a significant portion of manufacturing from China, not because they are smarter than us overall, or because the US is a third world country (we are not), but because this requires major investment back into the US manufacturing base, companies taking a hit on their net profits, and paying a livable wage to domestic workers in manufacturing.
     
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  23. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    The Emancipation Proclamation--which was made during the Civil War, and which ended slavery--was issued in on September 22, 1862. (It took effect on January 1, 1863.)

    That is over 157 years ago.

    As for human-rights violations, we have laws, nowadays, that disallow those. And we have had these for quite some time now.

    Just how long do you think that America should be contrite for its sins of the past, and therefore morally unfit to say anything to others?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that civilizations rise and fall, and ours is an exhausted civilization. Fifty years ago we put a man on the moon, and this weekend we all cheered because we managed to get one in orbit.

    If we had to fight World War II again, we would lose. We're not the country we were.
     
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  25. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    One can always recognize a dyed-in-the-wool liberal: It is someone who believes that racism is "systemic" in the US.

    In any case, please tell me: Just what white-majority country can you name that has done more than the US to root out racism, and thoroughly stigmatize it?

    If you can name even one, that will suffice...
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020

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