18 murders in 24 hours: Inside the most violent day in 60 years in Chicago

See what I mean?

 

I don't condone the 9 blacks or the 19 whites police killed last year that were unarmed. Now what about the 2,500 black on black murders?

 

Right-wingers like to conflate the two to minimize the importance of what BLM is trying to accomplish. BLM people don't care about black on black crime? That is like saying the Lung Association doesn't care that more people die in auto accidents they just care about smokers. Nonsense. Two different causes, two different answers.

Now what about black on black murder? Ireland for example has a slightly higher crime rate but our murder rate is 6 times higher. Why is that? I'm sure race pops into your head. What can be done about their race? Race changing seems to be a dead end.
How about the fact that every gangsta and wangsta has a gun? Cities have tried tightening gun laws, which the right fought and ridiculed, but city limits are too porous to stop the gun transport. So maybe we need national gun control.
More police and arrests? The police get there after the fact and we have the world's largest prison population while the US has only 5% of the world's population. How has that worked out?
Then there is poverty. The main cause. Fixing that would take several paragraphs and I would lose your interest.....

What's the right got besides self righteous snickering?

 

You cant blame guns for the murder rate, when areas with strict gun control have higher murder rates than areas next door to them that allegedly these guns are coming from.

If its the guns, certainly the area next door which is supplying the guns would have a higher crime rate right?

BLM doesn’t care about black lives taken by black lives. This is objectively true. They care about the statistically insignificant amount of people killed by whites, or cops. If they really cared simply about black lives they would show outrage in equal proportion in all directions, they dont.

The left likes to try and blame anyone but the source of the problem. You blame guns, even though considering the above it doesn’t make sense. Somehow it makes sense to you that the city with gun controls crime/murder rate is because of the relatively peaceful area next door with no gun control? Lmao. The issues the black community face, largely come from within the black community yet their anger is projected outward.

Poverty is not the biggest reason for the crime rates/murder rates. Impoverished white areas dont have the same crime/murder rates as black areas. It’s the breakdown of the family unit that is causing it.

What does the left have outside of self righteous virtue signaling?

Oh yea and anecdotes, dont forget those.

 

What don't you get that BLM is addressing a specific problem and that doesn't mean they do not care about black on black crime? It is a dodge on the right's part.

I'll be kind and chalk it up to reading comprehension. I compared two societies with approximately equal crime rates the difference being a 6 fold murder rate here. One has guns the other doesn't. Your contention it's not the guns. So if every Irish punk who wanted a gun could get one that would not effect the murder rate? It is because of race?

White poverty is largely confined to rural areas and they have higher crime rates and higher rates of children outside of marriage too, but with the higher the concentration of poverty the larger the problems. Is it because of race?

The left has lots of answers the right has one. It's their race.

 

Because that problem they are addressing isn’t being represented by them properly. They dont claim this relatively small issue is something worth fixing...they claim this relatively small issue is THE issue that is keeping black America down. THey claim this racism is rampant and holding them in place. It’s an objectively false claim.

Ill be kind and assume its reading comprehension. You compared two very different societies. I compared 2 areas right next door to each other in the U.S. You contend the area with strict gun control has its anomaly of a crime rate due to its next door neighbor importing guns and conclude its those guns that cause that crime/murder rate. However, the flaw in your premise is if its the guns that are causing it, that would imply the neighbor that is importing guns must also have a high crime/murder rate....it doesn’t. Your entire premise is completely false, based on a false narrative that you haven’t thought through very well.

And I said what the problem is, its the breakdown of the family unit. You may not want to acknowledge this, but it is true. It’s the most powerful correlation that we can make about peoples likelihood of going to prison. Not poverty.

The left doesn’t have any answers, they simply claim racism and demand you believe them. They simply misrepresent what the right believes as you did there. You said I (since I’m on the right) simply blame race, when i specifically said it was the breakdown of the family unit...not race.

You took at jab at my reading comprehension yet I literally answered your question directly, and you ignored it and put words in my mouth about race.

The left has nothing but race baiting. Not answers.

 

When blacks kill themselves far more than the police do, then I'd call their fear of the police a phobia. When Muslims slaughter people worldwide year in and year out, any similar concern is also called a phobia, only it's meaning is mangled to imply some sort of racism.

 

Guns aren't dangerous, people are. Get new people.

 

How do you think defunding the police will go over in Chicago? Would love to hear your theory. Unless of course you believe the idea of defunding police is stupid.

 

There’s a mountain of death in the inner cities and a statistically insignificant mole hill near it that is 9 out of over 40million unarmed Black people killed. Which is the BIGGER problem?

If anyone cared THAT would be where the outrage Is. But then it wouldn’t be so easy. Discussing the culture of violence and murder in the inner cities would involve actually confronting REAL problems. But it’s much easier to just blame perceived systemic racism that can NOT be proven. Just go on feelings and gullible willful idiots will all nod and cheer and fall in line while another weekend goes by and another double digit death count goes Ignored!!!

It wouldn’t be so sad if it wasn’t so hypocritical.

 

Maybe from a white right-winger's simplistic perspective BLM is addressing a "small issue" and they certainly know living in the black community that it is one issue in many obstructing equal treatment as you don't.

You provided a false comparison between inner city and white society. I provided a comparison more true to the social classes involved which you dodged commenting on. South Africa had the highest murder rate in the world.

"South Africa's comprehensive Firearm Control Act, passed in 2000, ..... One study found that firearm homicides in five major South African cities decreased by 13.6 percent per year for the next five years." https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11120184/gun-control-study-international-evidence

Coincidence? I don't think so.

I think sociologists will tell you you have things backwards. Poverty causes men unable to support families, out of wedlock births, increased crime, poor performance in school and on and on. The right likes to blame the individual social problems on why poverty exists. They ignore the history of social oppression blacks have lived under that caused the poverty. Ignoring the history to form a false narrative that you are comfortable with in order to blame the victim is racist.
May I suggest if you have Netflix watching the documentary "13".

A phobia is an irrational fear. You are saying the black community is wrong and irrational. That's kinda ignorant.

As I said, all the right has is self righteous snickering.

Chicago can do what they think is right but don't you think less money could be spent on the police and more on high quality preschool so kids would have more of a chance graduating school or after school programs or family social services or gun buy backs or mentoring or....

I'm glad a white guy can speak for the black community and tell them what is important and what their priorities should be. Maybe that will set them straight but systemic racism can and has been proven.

I think I said something about willful ignorance earlier.

 

Whats simplistic, is to believe it is anything but a small issue, relatively speaking. Again, the statistics dont change just because you have strong emotional attachments to your argument. No, you compared completely different areas. I compared 2 areas right next door to each other, the demographics of their races is meaningless unless it is YOU who thinks race is what causes crime.

Yet that doesn’t at all address the issue that there are plenty of communities with guns and very little in gun control that dont have nearly the crime rates of other areas that have very strict gun control. So calling it the “guns” fault is absolutely nonsensical. It’s not a gun problem, its a people problem.

Sociologists are opinionists, i could care less about their opinions. I am just as capable of looking at the same facts they are. Again, you haven’t refuted my claims at all you are repeating more nonsense. Poverty is far less of an issue than the breakdown of the family. Impoverished white communities dont hav here same crime rate, or even close to it, as black communities. This excludes poverty as the reason for the crime, so you have to look elsewhere. What could it be if its not poverty? THE FAMILY. Once the family breaks down, the issues of crime go up.

Using history as a justification for your logical inconsistencies now is fallacious.

May I suggest you look outside of Netflix for your information and perhaps examine the data that your beloved sociologists examine and come to your own conclusions? As of right now you are sourcing people like Vox (lol) and sociologists (opinionists).

The data doesnt’ support your claims at all

 

Maybe so. But it seems like the left has also been clueless on how to do it, since the overwhelming majority of areas where the problems are the worst are run by Democratic administrations and have been for years.....or maybe they're NOT clueless....one might conclude they didn't WANT to address the problem because that gets rid of an "issue" they can make political hay out of......many of the loudest "left" voices these days are long-serving representatives, senators, governors, mayors, council people, etc -- most of whom haven't done or even proposed SQUAT during their long years of service up to now.

 

It's not my attachment to BLM but the black community's belief that it is a very important issue that needs to be resolved. You, as representative of the right community, dismiss and minimize it. What should black people think about you?

Demographics are important when comparing likely outcomes, as I did with a lawless underclass. Your comparison of inner city to suburbs and rural doesn't hold water. Motivating forces are entirely different. Dodging again, do you think the murder rate would go up if every Irish thug could get a gun?

The availability of guns increases the homicide rate has been proven to everyone's satisfaction but right-wingers.

The right knows more than the social sciences because they can feel it in their gut. No need of numbers, no need of historical perspective, no social research, no taking the African American community's opinion as valid it just seems to be set assumptions and prejudice rules.

Your conspiracy theories and subjective skewed opinion that they haven't done SQUAT is something I would expect coming from you, but what has the right have to offer them? Keep it in your pants and work harder? The problem is the legacy of slavery.

 

BS.

BLM is about accountability. Black on Black crime is prosecuted, BLSM is fighting for accountability of the police.

But hey, you made Colin Kaepernick about “patriotism”, why not make this one about something its not. It’s the only way to justify a position.

 

That's not what any of this is about, why do keep bringing it up? It sounds like you a particular view of the black community. Care to elaborate since that is all you want to talk about?

 

"Coming from me"? I just entered this discussion. What do you presume to know about me based on one post in the thread? Nice attempt to label me and shove me aside based on nothing, all to sidestep the point I made and the comparison I drew. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories and ALL opinion is subjective, including yours. Part of the problem in this discussion is your utter disdain for "the right", but I agreed that perhaps you were correct in some of your criticisms. Unfortunately, you don't seem to realize that "the left", while talking a good game, hasn't done much better. But they get credit for talking the talk and feeling the pain....eventually, though, people start to realize that even though the lip service feels good, there's nothing substantial behind it.

If, as you assert, the main problem of the black community 155 years later is the legacy of slavery, what is the solution? Frankly, it seems to me that increased economic and educational opportunity is the best path forward, and in recent years it's been the GOP championing those issues with respect to all citizens, but especially those living in disadvantaged areas, which includes many in the black community. Most of the social issues can only be fixed from within community and culture, not by government fiat, although the government could certainly work on not economically encouraging problem behaviours. Fix education and promote economic advancement, and the rest begins to take care of itself.

 

Just ask Juicy Smollete, the French actor.

 

What’s the left got, besides blatant hypocrisy?

 

"If the Boys wanna fight ya better let 'em" - Tin Lizzy

 

How embarrassing, I beg your pardon, but maybe it was because you sounded like the rest; hyperbolic flat statements without nuance like ( I paraphrase) they ain't done SQUAT and vague conspiracies.

The right has made it clear they do not feel the pain and dismiss or minimize it and anyway to actually fix it would be fought by the right.

You are correct a way to fix it is economic and educational opportunity. You are incorrect that the "community"and "culture" needs to fix it. How's that worked out so far? The average net worth of white Americans is $117,000 and the average net worth for African Americans is $17,000. A white high school graduate has a greater net worth than a black college graduate. Is something inherent in the race or the system?

The Democrats have been diddling at the edges per your suggestions...fixing education, promoting economic advancements, etc. What would actually help? Raising the minimum wage. Most of the adult black women that work in service jobs they are single with children and earn $11 dollars an hour. They qualify for food stamps (SNAP), other child credits and sometimes section 8 housing. Walmart workers receive the biggest share among companies and Amazon is next. Tax payers in essence are subsidizing these companies. At $11 dollars an hour these women can afford $500 a month in rent. That gets you a crappy apartment in a crappy neighborhood with a crappy school system and you're lucky to have a crappy car. A full time worker is ghettoized. Telling them to keep their knees together doesn't work.

That's just one thing and I got a list....

Mr."Facts". Examples?

 

If I was a cop these days, my top priority would be to complete my shift & go home to my family.

Look the other way & let the inner cities kill each other.

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous post. To me, and I think to a lot of people on the more conservative side, we see economic issues and social issues as two different things. Yes, there is some overlap, but when I talk about social issues, I am thinking about things like becoming a parent at a young age and out of wedlock, and often compounding it by repeating it numerous times; expecting others to pay for you to keep and parent your child, via food, housing, and medical subsidy; lack of parental involvement and not valuing education; glorification of violence; lack of personal responsibility and motivation for hard work and working one's way up the ladder; preying on others in your community, etc. And of course these social issues are NOT limited to the black community, but they are very prevalent in it. Like it or not, children have the best opportunities for success when they are raised by two committed parents in the same household, whether those parents are heterosexual, homosexual, black, white, latino, etc.

The above is what I was talking about when I said government can't fix these types of social issues. THESE are the things that only the community and culture can fix. By making changes in education and economic opportunity, we make room for and incentivize the community to change the current culture.

In education, throwing money at the problem has been done for YEARS, with little to no result. The best results have been seen in early education and intervention, but those gains are lost once those children enter poor performing schools in the public education system, with no opportunity to escape and often no parental engagement. It's time to think outside the box and stop being afraid we're going to offend people -- why don't we perhaps try financially incentivizing parental involvement in children's education? People need to be TAUGHT good economic & societal behavior, that there is a way to live life that provides more opportunities for success as opposed to other ways. We don't need more people working for minimum wage at Walmart. Prior to Covid, the economy had greatly improved in just a few short years, to the point where good jobs are going begging for lack of qualified applicants. We need values-based education (NOT religious values, but good citizenship and good economic values) to teach kids to aim higher and not self-sabotage before they can get the education they need, and go back to minimum wage jobs being for teenagers, single young adults, and retirees.

The reality is, there's not much you can do for people who have already for the most part economically sunk their lives, other than the old rule of when you're in a hole, stop digging! But we CAN change things so that those people's children aren't consigned to the same fate. I don't "dismiss the pain" or minimize it. But hearing tough talk about the mistakes one has individually made and that society has made, and what can and should realistically be done to improve one's situation is, IMO, far more constructive than a bunch of sympathy and pandering to feelings. Government needs to start incentivizing the right choices and behaviours (and yes, there IS judgment there, but it's not religious or racial) to foster education, productive work, and good citizenship. The poor will always be with us; there just doesn't have to be so many of them.

 

What police brutality is that?

Like a cop is 18x more likely to be killed by a black guy than a black guy is to be killed by a cop.

Stats like police killings make up less than .0002% of the total murders in this country.

Stats like police brutality claims occur in less than .000001% of all police interactions.

Stats like complaints against the police occur .005% of all police interactions.

Stats like 99.1% of all cops have ZERO complaints against them.

Damn that sounds terrible. And what percentage would you folks find acceptable?

 

Why should all of us be punished because the black population can’t keep their violent gun crime under control?