The Confederate battle flag

Since the Confederate battle flag has been in the news lately--the state of Mississippi is set to remove that emblem from its state flag--it seems appropriate to make a few observations.

It would actually be inaccurate--and perhaps a bit intellectually lazy--to imagine that this flag means the very same thing to all people.

For instance, I frequently see pickup trucks around here, with the Confederate flag displayed on the back windshield. Those who drive these trucks probably see themselves as some sort of rebels--and wish to announce this to the world (or, at least, to all in the surrounding community).

Others see it as a part of their Southern heritage--which they strongly embrace. (Yes, the antebellum South was a slave-holding society; but those who fall into this category are not especially fastidious about this matter--anymore than they are about, say, the matter that women were treated as inferiors at this time, in this place.)

Still others, no doubt, are genuine racists.

But it would be a serious mistake, I believe, to suppose that all who brandish this flag fall into the last of these categories.

 

The point is that it means the same thing to black people. It means slavery. And it is justifiably offensive to them. That's why it has to go.

 

Well looks like our Gov. Reeves is getting rid of it . Citizens voted to keep it last time.

I as a Mississippian say good riddance.

 

I think you're right about the flag in that it means different things to different folks. I remember back in the 60'a and 70's it was referred to as the rebel flag where it was seen at those protesting different government actions such as the Vietnam War. Let's say from the never trust anyone over 30 crowd. A complete different era. Times change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst.

I have one encased in glass on my living room wall. My great grandpa gave it to my grandpa who carried it in France during WWI. He gave it to my dad who carried it in the Pacific during WWII. then on down to me where I had it in Vietnam and Laos. I gave it to my grandson when he went to Afghanistan with the 1ID.

When he got out of the Army he returned it to me, which is now on my living room wall. I sure would have liked to know where my great grandpa got it. Whether it was an original from the civil war itself or just one he happened to pick up along the way somewhere.

 

Thanks for that blacksplainin' there, Big Guy. You volunteer to translate or were you day-hire flat-rate?

 

Great story. My brother in law was in the sandbox, and our triangle of America flew over a place I do not even have the guts to look at in pictures. Mine was probably made in China. You're better off not knowing.

 

I look at the heroes dying for their cause --- brave, often illiterate but unusually qualified marksmen whose own forebears had cut down redcoats and won the war we were then about to reopen. Americans were about to fight other Americans. We didn't wear red and we mostly all knew guns.

I served a year in Albany, Georgia. I have their state flag in a patch on my service-era souvenir jacket. I think I understand the southern point of view. I respect their bravery and sacrifice.

 

You actually didn't KNOW that the confederate flag is offensive to black people?

Wow!

Did you know that the Nazi flag is offensive to Germans, jews, ...and to everybody who is not a Nazi, for that matter?

 

You have the annoying bad habit of fictionalizing my motives, because I can acknowledge the points stated above without feeling like I need a new set of crosses for the front lawn. I can be an occupying military member yet learn so much from the supposedly-defeated. Detroit in my home state got that lesson straight up the out route.

I have lived within an hour's driving time to the exact center of downtown Detroit since learning to drive. Say 1964 when Motown ruled the radio and every dance worth knowing came out of the town that gave us automobiles. I've worked for black-owned companies and with blacks in white-owned companies. So don't condescend to me about what blacks do or do not know, FELLOW WHITEY, because I am barely smart enough to let them tell you firsthand, without your condescending self.

 

What the hell are you talking about? I was explaining to the poster that what the confederate flag means to those who carry it is of no relevance in comparison to what it means to black people, and you jumped in and called that "blacksplainin' "

If you don't want to be called out, you need to read what the hell you're responding to.

BTW, Ann Arbor (damn liberal outpost) native myself. Till 1970 when we moved out of state with my parents. But I did my bike routes delivering the Detroit News after school.

 

I find a lot of their music offensive. Why should I have to hear it when they are blasting it?

of course, this is silly. So is demanding flags get removed because someone thinks they are offensive. Nobody has a right not to be offended.

lack of freedom of expression and speech is just as bad as slavery.

 

Why should anyone care about whether its offensive to someone over the people that don't find it offensive?

What is it with leftists that are trying their best to get rid of anything that is considered offensive? Why can't they just live and let live?

 

So you compare the obvious disadvantages that a portion of our population still suffers as a consequence of their ancestors having been slaves, and their grandparents being treated as second class citizens, and they themselves being unequally treated by abusive authority, to your whining?

So is that a license for me to call you anything I want? I can think of a few things right now that might describe you properly based on this post. Except forum rules don't allow it.

Abuse of freedom of expression is more like slavery than the obvious obligation to be civil which is a requirement of living in any human society.

The one thing about "rights" that right-wingers never understood is that their rights end where everybody else's begin.

 

My ancestors fought the Yankees but that war was long ago. I am an American and fought for the american flag not the Confederate flag. The American flag is all that I have an allegiance to.

I can understand why black folks don't want the Confederate flag. It has been cruel for us to display it on state property.

So I say it is about time we retired it and got a new flag that stands for all Mississippians. This is true progress! Our two GOP senators talked gov. Reeves into not having another vote on it. Our gov. is a republican too. They finally did the right and moral thing.

 

One reason is that if you don't care, you get months of justified protests. Others would only be understood by people with moral principles. So don't you worry about those for now.

Because bigots have polluted our society for centuries, and we know by now that if you let them "live" (in the sense you used) they don't let others live (both in your sense, as well as in a literal sense)

 

We are removing confederate statues and now the flag too!

 

Straw man argument. The confederate flag of today does not do any of that.

Say anything about me that you want. I won't object. I won't report you. I may comment on it, after all that is a part of free speech. But I will never question or try to suppress your ability to say anything you want about me. Offensive or not.

You say this...and then say....

Talk about an oxymoron. Like he said, no one has a right to not be offended. Which means what you said here not only does not debunk what he said it in fact supports it via your last line.

 

You exercised public input to the maximum extent that you could and after fair (and probably heated) debate this 10th Amendment decision was made. I have no quarrel with that.

 

"Do"?

Are you even understanding what I'm saying?

Good to know.... But you're outta luck. The rest of us do question yours.

And you hope he'll be able to demonstrate that, given that you can't.

 

Anybody who doesn't dig MoTown is some kind of....ah....young person.

Black contributions to popular, soul, rhythm and blues, jazz, rock and particularly religious music cannot be underestimated. Long gone and swept aside for the mouthings of mouthbreathers, women-hating thugs who disgrace their amazing racial musical traditions. Ella. Dinah. Louie. Oh my that list was long. All gone.

 

Then let them protest. It's their Right to do so...as long as its peaceful. In other words those protests do not trump other peoples Rights. And people have a right to be offensive if they wish. People have a right to think other than what others think. So either way you have not given a good reason as to why anyone should care more about a person being offended by a flag over a person that has a different view of the flag that they own.

And yet hate crimes were on a down slope until leftists started causing more division.

 

Yes I do. I'm just tying it back into what this thread is about. ​

Question my what? My ability to say something offensive? Question all that you like. Like it or not, I have a right to be offensive. You do not have a right to not be offended. ​

It's called Free Speech. And guess what? You can't have Free Speech if you attempt to stop people from being offensive. Which means no one has a right to not be offended. And just to prove that I'm going to post something you find offensive.

 

Offense is taken not given. If you don't want to be offended make the choice to not be.

 

Of course everything that a gang banging thugster flys from his jacked up and or stolen car and the obnoxious blaring loud “kill the ho” rap is OK!

 

That's quite a generalization you've made about a demonstrably diverse group of people (whom I'm guessing you don't actually know as much about as you think you do)...



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