Debunked, "Socialism has never worked"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is the best explanation of socialism, what it is, it's many variations, what it is not, how it is different from marxism and communism, how many on the right have simplistic arguments, not realizing that 'democratic socialism' is not the kind of 'socialism' which existed in totalitarian regimes like Venezuela, Soviet Union, Korea, etc, that many on the right would have you believe. Those are, in fact, not socialist states of which democratic socialists are seeking, they are authoritarian/totalitarian/oppressive regimes.

    But, this video goes in to much more detail, with historical examples, noting that one of the more successful regimes were the anarcho-syndicalist regimed such as practices by the Catalonians right before WWII (noting that Noam Chomsky favor's anarcho-syndicalism)

    Of course, when putting up this debate, I'm going to get a slew of simplistic and strawman arguments from the right, which, those will be ignored, mainly for the reason those arguments are uneducated on the subject, and seem to believe that the entirety of socialism isn't anything more than a dictionary entry. To understand why that's simplistic, I would ask you to listen to the entire video, it's not that long, and it is informative.

    but, it must be understood, I am not a socialist in the sense of the dictionary definition. A nation needs entrepreneurs, but I'm against exploitation, which is inevitable in unfettered free markets, and I'm against totally free market health care because it results in insurance layers that are unreliable ( and there is considerable historical proof of that fact ) because of the profit motive, so progressives would argue for both to exist, and let free market health care compete with 'medicare for anyone who wants it'.

    The video even makes a distinction between democratic socialism and social democracy ( I support the latter ).

    If you are not willing to watch the video, and you have a counter argument, it's likely that the video refutes your argument, which is why I am asking you to watch the video. But, if you can't or won't, I will not reply to your comment.



    And this video below, where Pakman explains he is NOT a 'socialist' (nor am I ).
    If you argue 'socialism' leads to 'fascism' Pakman acknowledges that problem and address why he is not a socialist. The video below is where I find myself on the political spectrum.



    Thoughtful courteous educated replies only. If you want to troll, please find another thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  2. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    None of your posts to this forum are either "educated" or "courteous," instead are cram full of the most "discourteous" deck-packing and slant imaginable, so spare us all the last part. Moreover, your threads/posts are spammy and the repetitive thread-starting is -plainly- designed to slide a certain POV onto the forum near election time. You... aren't... fooling... anyone.

    So, to the "topic," same old same old -collectivists- attempting to lily pad hop from their own -self-identified- labels to more "favorable," labels once the old ones run out in public opinion. 100-80 years ago, they proudly called themselves "communists," then that played out, then "socialist," played out, "radicals," played out, "liberals," played out, " progressives"... and so it goes and so it goes.

    What they/you are are "collectivists" and "statists" wearing various hats as it suits you. You want more power and size in government, for -your- benefit, and less freedom and higher expense to taxpayers to -their- detriment.

    So how about just cutting through all the obvious BALONEY and admit what you so plainly are.

    Oh, and Noam Chomsky is a ****ing moron.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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  3. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    The videos are socialist propaganda. Socialism has never worked.
     
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  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, i can't watch internet videos because I have metered internet service. But I can tell you that no socialist country has been economically successful. One thing that is true is that people on the left tend to put socialism in political terms. Socialism is an economic system, not a political one.
     
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  5. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

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    But, but, BUT what about Venezuela? <Ha Ha>
     
  6. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Ask yourself what is the greatest country in the history of the world and then ask yourself what that country's form of government is. No need to push other types.
     
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  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    ... because you know you have no capacity to meaningfully address them.
    Good of you to get out ahead of that.
     
  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is unequivocally false.
     
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  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It is a perfect example of a failed socialist economy. Oil producing countries should be wealthy. It takes some serious incompetence to turn it into a failure.
     
  10. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Indeed it was good of him to get out in front of comments like your's by perfectly characterizing them.

    "Of course, when putting up this debate, I'm going to get a slew of simplistic and strawman arguments from the right, which, those will be ignored, mainly for the reason those arguments are uneducated on the subject, and seem to believe that the entirety of socialism isn't anything more than a dictionary entry. To understand why that's simplistic, I would ask you to listen to the entire video, it's not that long, and it is informative."
     
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  11. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Morons never learn but that don't stop them from initiating the same failures over and over all over the world. Sad.
     
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  12. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    The Borg have been hired by the DNC.
     
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  13. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    What these people don't understand is a country can have some programs that are considered socialist but not be a socialist country. People on the right in this country call Obamacare socialist. It's not. People on the left counter with "what about the VA and Medicare" That's not socialist either. Countries that have large public programs like many European countries are not necessarily socialist. True socialist countries never succeed because they are completely state controlled and have little or no privare property rights. . That never works. Democrat half wits like Bernie Sanders and that toothy child AOC have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to "democratic socialism" That's just a cute made up term to make socialism sound safe.
     
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  14. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    That's inaccurate. Think about every road you drive on. Built via socialism. America uses socialism to do the things capitalism, not that we practice capitalism, fails miserably at.
     
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  15. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    That is not accurate at all.
     
  16. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Only if you don't understand the definition of socialism.
     
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  17. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    True, the chief means of producing the road still went to a contractor or two. But we as a society pooled our money to make an asset we all own and can use. Pure socialism has never existed just like pure capitalism never has. Purity isn't possible in the real world, but capitalism did not build our roads in this country. We the people did, you know, society, via a form of socialism.
     
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  18. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    OK, booer. It's way more accurate than you want it to be, that's for sure.
     
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  19. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    Is it? How do you know? I haven't even made my argument yet. Assume much?
     
  20. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    So...make it already...Jesus.
     
  21. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    Right off the bat the government doesn't own the means of production. That should be the first clue.
     
  22. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Oh but they have the capital. They then hire the means of production. And that product is then utilized by all who put in resources to create it. Socialists use contractors. And moreover, socialism allows the ownership of private property...such as a contracting company that say provides contractors to build roads...but go on, you're doing great!
     
  23. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    All who put in the resources to create it, huh. That's difficult for those that don't own cars. To buy a car they have to exchange capital from a private entity. Yeah. I'm doing alright but your condescension and puerile arrogance has been noted.
     
  24. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The state may own the roads, but it does not own or provide the "means" to use them - and thus, does not own and control the means of distributing wealth.
    So, all you're left with is the fact the state spent money on the roads.
    That, in an of itself, is not socialism.
     
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  25. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's a job he's bungling. That part anyway seems open for discussion. That fascination with failed political/economic systems, for example. That type of person never heard the other side, or misunderstood it if they did.
     

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