So when Trump wins the popular vote on election day, but then Biden wins ...

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by wgabrie, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Codswallop. The College itself could select the election loser to be President. Do we want this possibility or can we be satisfied with the weighting the College creates?
    The Electoral College is not what the Founders envisioned in terms of a sober second thought on who voters selected.
     
  2. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the GOP may be "broken" for awhile after Trump is gone, just like Obama broke the DNC into tribes of people with severe political differences. 2024 will be interesting.
     
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  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What loser, which state? You still don't get how the President is chosen do you or are you purposely being obtuse? And it is exactly what the Founders envision and serves the purpose for which it was designed.
     
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  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are joking, you are claiming the States don't have interest in the federal government?

    What an intellectual response, that the best yhou got

    A FEDERAL republic of STATES, you still don't understand how the government works are you a citizen?
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No you can't imagine jack.
     
  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Obama had an unbelievable chance to change our politics. If he had ventured out to white communities in the Spring of 2009 and told those people he was the President of all Americans, their vote for him would have been validated. He chose not to take a positive step. I never have figured out why.
     
  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I guess your unwillingness to expect the USPS to expedite mail-in balloting makes me suspicious of your motives.
     
  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The popular vote is tallied every election cycle, I adore how you accuse everyone of strawmen when virtually every argument you make is one when this discussion comes up. Someone states candidate x got more votes than candidate y on a national scale and you come in whining that that our elections don’t work that way.

    No one is saying they work that way, instead we are discussing that the will of the people has not been met — I can no longer tell if it is trolling or just sheer ignorance.
     
  10. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is more important; the collective people, or the collective states? Should we become 50 different countries and leave Puerto Rico, Guam, St Thomas, etc., to become their own countries. As long as we are the United States, it should be up to the states to decide.

    It's a legit question; I think we should stay United States. We could easily become Europe, though, and have a multitude of countries in one land mass. It would weaken all of us, but it would mean the popular vote would matter more than it does.
     
  11. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The issue with this is that the federal government have become overreaching. We are no longer a nation of 50 independent states that are free to do as they will but rather 50 states under a federal government. When the constitution was drafted the states were the entities in control of day to day policy that impacted their populace — this is no longer the case.

    I would support reverting back to this principle, allow the states to collect all income tax (the Federal could be funded through trade policy) and allow them to set their own individual policies. The Federal would be massively scaled back to handle only dispute between the states, a national defense (instead of a world wide occupying force) and other constitutionally mandated activites.

    If CA wants healthcare for all and massive taxes, so be it. If AL wants zero public assistance and religious education, have at it.
    I actually think this would work much better than what is happening today.

    But as long as we have the government we have, then the voice of all people is important in electing the individual that has a huge sway in their lives — it is unjust to have the vote of one citizen be grossly more weighted than another just because of where they live today.
     
  12. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, a black president with a Martin Luther King philosophy on race could have united the country and continued to move us to a more open and color-blind society, the way we were headed before Obama.

    Obama had a lot of Marxist influence from adults during his childhood. His political philosophy was more in line with Malcolm X than with Martin Luther King. Obama personally had a background as a community organizer. As you know, community organizers build coalitions and blocs of people to oppose an enemy group, however that enemy is defined. There always has to be a real or imagined enemy. In Obama's case, it was Republicans generally, and white Republicans specifically.

    It's not hard to figure out why Obama was a race and partisan divider, not a unifier for the country.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "So when Trump wins the popular vote on election day, but then Biden wins ..."

    Wouldn't that just be karma
     
  14. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is very Libertarian thinking (until the last paragraph). :applause:

    The federal government has not taken over states' rights at this point, but it is the Democrat Party's platform to give the federal government increased, not decreased, responsibility, authority and power. Democrats have turned California and New York into one-party states, and that is exactly why we need to keep the electoral college.
     
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  15. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes. That's what I want to. The fed needs to get out of our lives and stick to its' constitutional duties.
     
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  16. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree the federal hasn’t taken over states rights, it is ever encroaching and accelerated under each administration, both Republican and Democratic. Democrats seem to want it regardless while Republicans only want it when they are in control.

    Revert major taxation back to the states and watch as states begin to compete with one another
    That is the way we make positive advancements in our nation.
     
  17. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Major taxation is in the hands of state and local governments today. My biggest tax burden isn't federal tax, it is 8.25% state sales tax on the purchase of most products, and local city and county property and school taxes. Most states with long-term one-party Democrat governorship impose a state property and income tax on top of their state sales tax.

    States are competing with each other. People are leaving states like California and New York in droves and coming to lower cost states like Texas. The state competition is functioning the way it should.

    We do agree on federal overreach and power though. They are legislating too much on what people can and can't do, what people can and can't own, how people should and shouldn't live. Democrats, of course, also want to pile on more taxes to citizens who already feel over-taxed by their city/county/state.
     
  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Since it does not exist no it isn't. What is tallied are 51 completely separate and unique elections for electors which produces and outcome totally different from what would be one single national vote base on a campaign for a national vote. It is both statistical and political folly to claim they are one in the same.
     
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  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The USPS will handle the mail as it always does, if you want to or a state wants to use them to then you and they will have to do so under USPS guidelines and I highly suggest if you do so that as Trump suggested you follow up and make sure your ballot arrives on time and if it doesn't that you go to the polling place are cast a provisional.
     
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  20. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does exist, it is tracked every election cycle.
    No one is trying to assert they are the same, that is a strawman of your own creation.
     
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    A tally of 51 unique and separate elections which does not reflect a national popular vote. Don't know why you keep trying to assert there is one, it's a strawman created by the losers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  22. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The loser would be the candidate with fewer pledged electors, assuming the other candidate had a majority of pledged electors. Some electors could ignore their pledge to the candidate who won a majority in the general election, join with other electors and vote in the loser.
    I'll just refer you to...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._68

    https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-reason-for-the-electoral-college/

    It would be impossible in 2020 for the Electoral College to select someone other than the candidate with the most pledged electors.

    The other provision is the weighting of electors to favor smaller states. That, of course, continues and is the chief objection of Electoral College opponents.
     
  23. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I taught US history.
     
  24. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The USPS sent a communication to states and warned them the ballots might not get delivered in time to be counted. More Trump games.
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I pity the children. Did you teach them the every four years we have a popular vote for the President?
     

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