Trump needs to put a real second amendment advocate on the Court

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Turtledude, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Could you elaborate on that statement?
     
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's entirely your right to disagree and I doubt that you've spent a relaxing afternoon target shooting with friends or ever been in a position where having a gun saved you from individuals whose intent was not to make you any healthier, richer or happier.

    I hope you are never faced with a home invasion, mugging or any other situation in which your life depends on having a firearm but until you are, you will probably hold the same views.

    Yes, people do misuse firearms and powerful narcotic pain killers but nothing takes the place of either when you really them.
     
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  3. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    While many gun rights activist use the support of the 2A as a litmus test of sorts (I have been guilty of that at times), I prefer to favor SCOTUS jurists that support originalist interpretation of the Constitution. In doing so, a Standard is set that will apply far beyond the narrow scope of the 2A. It’s why Scalia and other past Originalist SCOTUS jurists are often held with high esteem.
    There are those that approve judicial activism of the Courts as some sort of means for providing for a ‘living’ Constitution. Yet, if changes to the Constitution are warranted, the Constitution provides at least 2 processes for it’s modification... processes prescribed for the Constitution to be adjusted for the needs of any generation. These two processes, calling for a Constitutional Convention or the Amendment process, were advocated to preserve a separation of power.
    Advocates for ‘stacking’ the court or politicizing the judicial composition of the Court in hopes of getting judicial bench activists to recast meaning of the Constitution’s text is a strategy to bypass the prescribed processes for amending it and usurping the role of the Legislature and States in the Amendment process, essentially advocating that the amending Constitution be relegated to the hands of the 9 SCOTUS jurists, something the Founding Fathers would have considered a threat, the concentrating of power in the hands of a few, a prescription for the emergence of Tyranny. The role of the SCOTUS was not to originate law, that power was enumerated for the Legislature. The Legislature was not conceived as making recommendations for law to be confirmed by the Court.
    Over the last few decades the framework for the separation of power in the government has been seriously eroded with many in government uneducated on the origins of the political philosophy that influenced those crafting the Constitution and the underlying principles for the separation of power as conceived by the French political philosopher, Montesquieu and discussed at length in the Federalist Papers. It’s something unlikely to be remedied without a Constitutional Convention, something the most influential of the Founding Fathers envisioned might happen at least once a generation.
     
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  4. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    As always you have words of wisdom.

    Like I said, I'm available.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  5. Enuf Istoomuch

    Enuf Istoomuch Well-Known Member

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    I expect Barrett to be confirmed, meaning there will now be five and one half votes on the court AGAINST anti-gun laws and FOR protecting gun rights under the Second Amendment. This is good, pleased to see it. I thank and admire the Federalist Society in selecting her, knowing full well Trump lacks the will or conservative credentials to do so all by himself.

    If anything, come the next Republican President after our Republic recovers from the injury of Trump and tires of the next round of Democrats, when that new Republican President arrives I hope to see the Federalist Society awarded a Presidential Gold Medal of Freedom for services rendered. The only good news to have come out of the current disaster in the White House has been the Federalist Society's puppet string manipulations of Trump's court nominations.

    Hell, they practically deserve a monument for that success.
     
  6. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do overeat.

    But guns are used for 30,000 violent suicides and 12,000 violent murders per year.
     
  7. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Guns cause much much more harm then good.

    The number of justified homicides is about 30 times lower then the number of criminal homicides. The number of gun suicides is even much higher.
     
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  8. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    the only things that say that are game animals and criminals
     
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  9. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Humans are not game animals -- even those who commit offenses.
     
  10. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    at least 80% of the murders are perpetrated by people who are banned from owning guns. If you count those who had yet to be convicted or have juvenile records, it gets closer to 90%. And at least 80% of those killed are also mopes. So between 1000-2000 murders by gunshot each year are perpetrated by someone who legally possessed the gun. GUESS WHAT-that is statistically non-existent in a country where there are 400 or more million firearms and at least 100 million firearms owners.
     
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  11. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    smart people understand that I separated the two. Game animals (one group) Criminals (another group)
     
  12. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    My diagnosis is high functioning Autistic.
     
  13. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, murderous and suicidal individuals do obtain guns.
     
  14. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    You didn't really defend your statement that "Guns cause much much more harm then good". Simply stating that justified homicides are lower than criminal homicides does not even begin to address what is being done with all the other millions and millions of guns not being used in homicides. If you consider there are somewhere around 400,000,000 firearms in the US and only a fraction of them, somewhere around 0.01%, are used to commit crimes then most are not causing harm. Based on that we must assume that many are actually being used for good; hunting, target shooting, competitive shooting, personal protection.

    What is your ultimate goal with your attitude towards guns?
     
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  15. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    because he knows he can.t He's trolling.
    ... is completely irrelevant
    He knows. He's trolling.
     
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  16. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and no set of gun laws will prevent that from happening.
    I was raised in Belfast in the UK during the ‘Troubles’. The UK has had, since long before those times, among the most restrictive set of gun laws of any Country, where even possession of a single round of ammunition could result in substantial prison time. Despite that, not only was I involved in making firearms, zip guns and black powder, before the age of 10, but could, and did, acquire firearms from my social network of young teens. That, on an Island, where interdicting firearms and other weapons was not only an extremely high priority, but had an absence of civil rights protections where anyone could be searched at any time and where the police and security forces could break into and search any home without warrant even upon receiving an anonymous, unsubstantiated tip.
    Obama had an opinion similar to yours and thus, despite a congressional prohibition on funding gun research intended to bias toward antigun political influence, Obama, in large part, influenced by his anti-gun agenda issued an executive order funding the CDC to conduct a national gun study with resulted in a 2013 report, that more or less backfired on him and was somewhat buried. Here is the text of that report.
    https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1
    It won’t support your post, no the repetition in the MSM regarding anti-gun rhetoric which is seductive, but does align with FBI reporting and independent assessments. While not something that can be used to draw a direct causal relationship, consider, since 1993 violent crime as declined by some 49% while the number of guns in the US has nearly doubled, now near 500 million... more guns in civilian possession than all the armies and law enforcement in the world combined.
     
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  17. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    If you know his posting history, you can see he’s not deliberately trolling, but his posts take on a more personal belief pattern based on his life situation. Rather than leveling the trolling label, I would suggest, responding with factual argument. It is hard for many to escape the continual MSM barrage of anti-gun Rhetoric, so exposing folks to alternative factual view points removes the US vs Them polarizing Rehtoric. I see it as an opportunity to educate.
     
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  18. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    That's what he wants you to believe - his supposed mental condition makes it OK for him to repeat nonsense he knows it not true.
    Thus, showering him with facts is a waste of time.
     
  19. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    When I respond to posts, I see it as an opportunity to share beyond a single individual. While there are those that seek to push propaganda for their specific agendas, others have views that are influenced by MSM propaganda that haven’t been exposed to alternative views, have sufficient information to support critical thinking analysis, and maybe testing the veracity of their own beliefs.
    While I could be wrong, I do believe he is what he says he is... I see many clues in his posts over time just as over time when someone indicates they have been in a gunfight, they leave clues which reveal the likelihood they have that experience.
    There are a few trolls posting here.... likely, many long time participants would agree if a list were developed.
     
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  20. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    The lax gun laws supported by gun apologists is a huge contributing factor to the problem.
     
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  21. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    This is a lot of cherry picking. The US gun violence rate is much higher than the UK's. The CDC study was inconclusive. You say the number of guns has gone up while gun violence has gone down. That's like pointing out that lung cancer has gone down while the number of cigarettes has increased. But what about the smoking rate? What about the gun ownership rate? What about the numerous case control studies showing an association between the risk of being murdered and owning a gun?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  22. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully they are banned. But that is unlikely.
     
  23. Enuf Istoomuch

    Enuf Istoomuch Well-Known Member

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    There may be exactly one good thing, and no more than one good thing, to come out of the disaster of Trump being elected President. That will be Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court Amy Coney Barrett becoming the fifth and one half vote in defense of the Second Amendment. There are other areas of the law where Barrett worries me, but on the right of the people to keep and bear arms I feel at long last confident.

    Perhaps, I should long to hope at least, that if "Strict Scrutiny" is finally applied to strike down the endless idiotic gun laws in this country, the pro and anti gun forces will finally be left to face up to the real root cause of our shared emotional hot button issues.

    It is not the weapons, it is the darned humans.

    One organization that has had enormous success in reducing inner city and youth gang violence is "Sure Violence". They take a public health, behavioral health/communicable disease approach and it works.

    Another is the United States Secret Service. After Columbine the Secret Service and the US Dept. of Education teamed up to study targeted school violence and how to prevent it. Ever since then the methods they documented have become the gold standard.

    There are many approaches to solving the problem of human violence. They get little news coverage and less attention from politicians. The reason is these methods, although they work, they do not fit any side's existing political narrative.They are not about more guns or less guns. They are not about more cops or less cops. They are focused solely on the root causes of human violence, the early detection, the assessment and planned intervention. The disruption of the revenge and territorial combat cycles of youth gangs. So many methods of recognizing violence in its development phase and intervening early.

    Read and learn folks. This is the good stuff, it is what works.


    [​IMG]
    https://cvg.org/

    [​IMG]

    https://www.secretservice.gov/data/protection/ntac/usss-analysis-of-targeted-school-violence.pdf
    https://www.secretservice.gov/data/protection/ntac/MAPS2019.pdf
     
  24. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Seems an odd goal just to want them banned. I would have thought you'd have a good reason for wanting them banned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  25. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Again, it is not lax laws but lax enforcement of existing laws.
     
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