'No surprise' we're seeing coronavirus surge in Republican areas

He did. Miracle. Sound science behind that. Believe him. He has the greatest miracle workers. He knows more than the creator of miracles.

“It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

 

Well, then, nothing is left, because he didn't close the borders either. He implemented some travel *restrictions*, not bans, with a page-long list of exceptions. Thousands of people were let in anywhere, with no quarantine provision, and seeded the virus everywhere.

 

Yep..that is his "plan" in a nutshell

Living in a fantasy world , callous indifference t o humanity in the real world. Quite sadistic.

as he said recently :"I couldn't care less "

 

I’m glad I’m not the only one mystified. This pertains to content from you below as well, but will jump ahead and say it here. You make a good point about the sheer volume of information a physician must know and apply. Specialization temporarily helped, but now even narrow specialties involve more information than a human can be expected to know. Add back in the new flood of information linking specialties (just like virology and cardiology here) and there’s just no way a researcher or practitioner can keep up. Our only hope to cope is likely artificial intelligence, but that’s a rabbit hole for another day.

I agree the stated 91,000 or whatever claim based on an estimate from another study is thin. Even though our discourse is “long form” enough to bore most PF members to tears, our disagreement here is just based on our moving on before fully understanding each other’s position. With your additions and my stopping to think about your last post I believe we are in agreement on this point.

Yes I’ve looked into the CDC methods. Until 2010 they reported the same number every year. Now it’s an estimation supposedly based on research of the type we are now discussing, but mostly from hospitalization data of confirmed cases (just as you stated) and death certificates of non hospital deaths.

Perhaps you are right about them over reporting to scare people into vaccination. If that’s true, then I’m petrified. But not of the flu. I certainly hope this is not the case. The CDC in effect outright lying to facilitate influenza vaccination has unimaginable consequences in relation to fueling anti vax and to huge demographics ever trusting the CDC again on any issue, especially something like C19. I know there are people that accept this kind of behavior—think of all those not bothered by Fauci and his mask drama. It seems many don’t mind dishonesty if they perceive it benefits them in some way. We’ve discussed previously how people in my “world” react to things like less than full disclosure on vaccines. We do million dollar deals on a handshake (literally) but once trust is broken, we never deal with that entity again.

Perhaps you can help me understand why the CDC would even want to overestimate flu deaths to encourage people to get vaccinated for something that isn’t responsible for many deaths anyway. Seems like lying about something that could prevent more deaths would make more sense. Something doesn’t add up.

Ok, as I said above, I just didn’t catch on the first time around. We are in agreement.

Good points about second waves. It’s presumptuous of me to say this year will be the worst for Covid. It may not be. But you got my point about novel viruses losing their “novelty” naturally and by vaccination. Even H1N1 in 2009 was nothing compared to 1918-19.

Yep. Here’s where I jumped the gun above. You are correct, there is too much information.

I agree the data on yearly decreases of AMI that I supplied is not conclusive. I apologize if I implied it was. It’s mainly supporting evidence to me that the more formal studies showing cardiovascular effects of flu are onto something. Like I said earlier, I first started thinking about this in late July. I kind of floated a trial ballon here then but it didn’t fly. So I thought some more and kept looking for evidence. I’ve literally had tabs of links I’ve provided open on my phone for months and spent quite a bit of time pondering and questioning myself. When I discovered the annual table I supplied supported the current research from 2018-present I couldn’t ignore it any longer. I know my posting this stuff opens cans of worms and makes many people angry, but when the big meltdown happened a while back about Trump claiming 100,000 people die of flu each year (I can’t remember the exact quote) I opened my big mouth and defended that comment with some of the information I’ve presented in this thread. Yes, it generated a lot of anger.

Even though the current partisan C19 vs. flu debate is what prompted me to look into this, my intent isn’t to downplay C19. I just want the truth from both sides of the equation out in the open.

Thanks. I know I’m biased against the authoritarian demographic (which I know you aren’t a member of) and admit most of my content here is directed against that demographic. Because of that, I know it appears I’m an apologist for Trump, etc. or am downplaying C19. But really I’m about reality and correct information even if it isn’t pretty or popular.

I’ve been promised by big tech that one day I can press my thumb to my phone screen and it will diagnose what, if anything, ails me. That’s much more appealing than a colonoscopy. I’ll go shoulder deep in a cow rectum no problem to preg check. But having something like that done to me just makes me shudder. I’ve never heard of the ColonGuard. That looks like a better deal all around. I’m assuming a colonoscopy is only as good as the doc performing it. A lab would theoretically be more consistent and reliable, no?

I suppose about any form of persuasive communication could be considered spin. Your delineation between constructive and destructive “spin” is a good thing for us all to consider when we are attempting to persuade others. What our intentions and motivations are certainly matters.

You sound like a man speaking from experience. LOL. I’ll bet you get more “stories” than grade school teachers get about missing homework.

I read somewhere up to 50% of high school grads aren’t sufficiently literate to follow written directions accompanying a prescription. Compound that with anxiety from seeing a doctor interfering with comprehension or retention of verbal directions and even well intentioned folks are going to mess things up. You are certainly fighting an uphill battle.
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No I’ll check that out. Good point about being a hard thing to trial. There should be a lot of candidates though right, as much heart disease as we have in the US?

 

The barbarians are NOT at the gates, they are in Congress, the Oval office, state legislatures and the SCrOTUS.

In essence it is no longer the government of We the People unless we have all become barbarians ourselves. Instead it is only actually a small subset that is USURPING the power of OUR government for their own nefarious ends.

 

sure, anyone who wishes to discuss who/what/where/when

good luck finding news sources that provide that as opposed to only providing opinions

 

Absolutely spot on. astute assessment. Well done.!! One cannot even recognize the GP.......or what goes for a governing body anymore. IF THIS is replacing what they called the swamp......... well, there is a whole new batch of swamplife there now. The head reptile is acting out in many bizarre ways. Only swamp version 2.1 would mishandle the pandemic the way that we have seen and continue to see. A population's HEALTH is a first and major priority for any governing body. .....and yeet.......... Swamp 2 acts like it is nothing serious. an unhealthy population is not able to do anything towards repairing the economy.

 

PBS and BBC are pretty good. Neither is inflammatory or crazy biased. (IMHO)

 

You mean besides listening to your genius experts and launching the fastest vaccine trials in human history?

What's your plan?

Go ahead and explain how you would have done it differently.

Go ahead and explain how he didn't listen to your experts.

The experts who were saying Covid wasn't a problem and that you shouldn't wear masks when he was closing the border.

 

[/QUOTE]
No I’ll check that out. Good point about being a hard thing to trial. There should be a lot of candidates though right, as much heart disease as we have in the US?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, nice post, no need to go paragraph by paragraph as we seem to be in full agreement about most of the above. So I'll just try to answer a couple of questions.

First, I committed a typo (among many others; for example I typed Why no evidence of ... when I meant While no evidence of... etc the name of the new colon cancer screening is Cologuard. No, it's not more reliable than colonoscopy. It is sensitive at 92% (so it still misses 8% of existing colon cancer). It is a valid alternative, and has been approved as such, for people 45 and older who have *regular* colon cancer risk. Those who are high risk are encouraged to have a colonoscopy, instead, which is more likely to find a higher percentage of existing cancer. I don't get your objection about "a colonoscopy is only good as the doctor doing it." Do remember that one, doctors doing colonoscopy are generally board certified gastroenterologists who are perfectly equipped to find colon cancer when they perform one (and when they are not yet so, like a resident or fellow, usually the board certified mentor is right there next to the resident, guiding the residing and looking at suspicious areas as well - if you want to avoid that, just go to a non-teaching hospital to have it done and look up the doctor's credentials), and also, do remember that they collect biopsies and remove polyps that are then sent to Pathology to verify if they have cancerous cells inside them. So, it's all very objective.

Come on, man, your objection to having a tube up your behind is silly... you'll be under sedation, asleep, won't feel a thing, and will wake up after it's all done. The most unpleasant part of a colonoscopy is the prep and the diarrhea associated with it. The procedure itself, patients don't feel a thing. Think that it beats the alternative (dying from colon cancer).

Anyway, for someone like you who already resists the idea of seeing doctors, then at least do the Cologuard. This test kit needs to be ordered by a doctor, but the company did provide a telehealth option for you to log in, talk about it with a doctor who will then issue the prescription. Do it, my friend! And also, do a PSA for prostate cancer screening. That does take a prescription too and a blood draw.

About you being a sticker for truth and complete information regardless of what side it appeals to: I value that. You keep me honest.

About the trials for the heart patch: very complex. Imagine, we are talking about open heart surgery. Even though there are numerous people who would be candidates, it is not that easy to convince a prospective research subject to submit to open heart surgery for a trial of a technique that is still unproven. And as you know, to have statistical significance you need a large number of subjects, so I expect that trials will take several years to complete, which explains the silent you've mentioned. Researchers presented the technique in meetings and papers, people got excited, said "let's do trials", they are recruiting, so until they conclude (in a few years) there isn't much more to be said. At least, that's my understanding, but obviously I'm not involved as I'm not a thoracic surgeon, so I don't know what's the latest.

 

There HAS been a lot of mixed messaging, hasn't there.?? What would I have done?? I would have made sure the guidelines from the medical experts were clear, and well defined. I would have made sure the messaging would have been consistent. Y not confusing . I would NOT Keep getting into verbally abusive arguments with others that have differing opinions . I would have made sure that we worked out a compromise in a case of differences. and do that behind closed doors.........and NOT play the childish blame game or name calling or degrading others as if it were some sick sport. I would have made the health of the population a priority and not play games with the misinformation that has confusing and negative effects. If I delegate the job of managing the pandemic........then I would let the team do their job and expect feedback with an opportunity for input. I would not interfere with their efforts or shame them. I would make sure the team were highly qualified and have the communication skills to provide clear instructions to the public. I would remain in regular communication with other nations to see how they are handling the pandemic so that an open sharing of information would be facilitated. It is a world problem. And t will take the world of nations to fix it. Just some random thoughts on your question. We have a coupleof physicians here..... They would be an excellent source for ideas in this regard.

 

1. What guidelines from the experts were not followed? I'm assuming you mean the experts guidelines not to close the borders?

2. The messaging came from the experts.

3. Says the people blaming Trump and offering nothing of their own

4. Most deaths were in states putting infected senior citizens into care facilities all run by Democrats

5. How did Trump interfere with the team?

You've shown nothing here.

Let me repeat myself:

While Trump was closing the border, against the "experts" advice, Democrats were telling everyone to participate in the Chinese New Year and calling everyone racists.

 

As someone who is high risk I have had colonoscopies since I turned 40 I can attest that everything you posted above is correct. Since I have lived and worked overseas I also have experience of them outside the USA and all of the specialists that I have seen have been well trained professionals.

You are correct that the prep is the worst aspect but even then it is still not that bad, I have had worse from eating food that disagreed with me.

As a caregiver keeping myself healthy is a priority and so that includes preventative screening like PSA's for prostate cancer and Dermatologists for skin cancer. In essence medical professionals can only do so much and the more I can do to keep myself fit and healthy the better shape I will be in to handle anything that might occur.

 

In other words, you'd be a true leader... something the child in charge of the Oval Office obviously is not. Seems like our top "leadership" is involved in an elementary school food fight.

As for answers to the questions the poster you are replying to has asked, I don't know what they are since I have that poster on Ignore. Probably for a very good reason.

 

Yes......I can understand why you would have said poster on ignore.

re: "leadership" in the oval office. It is MIA There is NONE. and that is a tragedy...IMHO.

 

the issue is also what isn't reported

We heard all about the Russia dossier on all of the media outlets including the ones that you mentioned.We still hear of it despite it being proven false

On those same outlets, not a peep about what the Hunter Biden emails reveal about Joe Biden nor is there any vetting on Kamala Harris.

 

No I’ll check that out. Good point about being a hard thing to trial. There should be a lot of candidates though right, as much heart disease as we have in the US?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, nice post, no need to go paragraph by paragraph as we seem to be in full agreement about most of the above. So I'll just try to answer a couple of questions.

First, I committed a typo (among many others; for example I typed Why no evidence of ... when I meant While no evidence of... etc the name of the new colon cancer screening is Cologuard. No, it's not more reliable than colonoscopy. It is sensitive at 92% (so it still misses 8% of existing colon cancer). It is a valid alternative, and has been approved as such, for people 45 and older who have *regular* colon cancer risk. Those who are high risk are encouraged to have a colonoscopy, instead, which is more likely to find a higher percentage of existing cancer. I don't get your objection about "a colonoscopy is only good as the doctor doing it." Do remember that one, doctors doing colonoscopy are generally board certified gastroenterologists who are perfectly equipped to find colon cancer when they perform one (and when they are not yet so, like a resident or fellow, usually the board certified mentor is right there next to the resident, guiding the residing and looking at suspicious areas as well - if you want to avoid that, just go to a non-teaching hospital to have it done and look up the doctor's credentials), and also, do remember that they collect biopsies and remove polyps that are then sent to Pathology to verify if they have cancerous cells inside them. So, it's all very objective.

Come on, man, your objection to having a tube up your behind is silly... you'll be under sedation, asleep, won't feel a thing, and will wake up after it's all done. The most unpleasant part of a colonoscopy is the prep and the diarrhea associated with it. The procedure itself, patients don't feel a thing. Think that it beats the alternative (dying from colon cancer).

Anyway, for someone like you who already resists the idea of seeing doctors, then at least do the Cologuard. This test kit needs to be ordered by a doctor, but the company did provide a telehealth option for you to log in, talk about it with a doctor who will then issue the prescription. Do it, my friend! And also, do a PSA for prostate cancer screening. That does take a prescription too and a blood draw.

About you being a sticker for truth and complete information regardless of what side it appeals to: I value that. You keep me honest.

About the trials for the heart patch: very complex. Imagine, we are talking about open heart surgery. Even though there are numerous people who would be candidates, it is not that easy to convince a prospective research subject to submit to open heart surgery for a trial of a technique that is still unproven. And as you know, to have statistical significance you need a large number of subjects, so I expect that trials will take several years to complete, which explains the silent you've mentioned. Researchers presented the technique in meetings and papers, people got excited, said "let's do trials", they are recruiting, so until they conclude (in a few years) there isn't much more to be said. At least, that's my understanding, but obviously I'm not involved as I'm not a thoracic surgeon, so I don't know what's the latest.[/QUOTE]
No problem with the typos. I know I let many slip by permanently. And yes I know my aversions to medical procedures is silly. So is my fear of heights when dozens of things I do each day are riskier yet I have no concern with them.

I see your point on difficulty recruiting for heart patch trials. Who wants to risk their life in pursuit of science, especially if they have more attractive options than experimental procedures.