Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greatest I am, May 11, 2020.

  1. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Was Jesus aware of being Yahweh?

    I have wondered how Christians rationalized Jesus' last words --- "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

    Jesus seems unaware that he was God.

    What did Jesus mean by forsaken?

    The usual definition means abandoned or deserted.

    How can one abandon or desert themselves?

    If Jesus knew he was Yahweh, how did he feel about the poor reputation the Jews gave Yahweh?

    Is that why the Jews tried to kill Jesus more than once before the cross got him?

    Further.

    Jesus also said that he and god were one, yet scriptures seem to show Jesus as Yahweh’s good side and Yahweh as the evil side.

    If Jesus/Yahweh shared the some consciousness, which they would have to given that there is only one god in Christianity, why are they so different?

    Regards
    DL
     
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  2. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/jesus_is_yahweh.htm
     
  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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  4. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Quoted from dial the truth ministries.
    Ozzy Osbourne is the testimony of a man who found that elusive dream that most are searching and striving for. Ozzy got it. Ozzy acquired the fame. Young people; the media; even the President of the United States honor Ozzy. Ozzy acquired the fortune. Ozzy has sold over 70 million records and lives a life of luxury with servants waiting on his every wish.
    Yes, Ozzy has got it. . .
    But that did not satisfy Ozzy Osbourne. The incredible "fame and fortune" did not give Oz any real peace or joy. Ozzy Osbourne is an empty man.
    Yes, Ozzy has got it. . .
    And yet, Ozzy has lost it. . .
    In a recent song (2001) Ozzy pitifully sings in "Running Out of Time":
    Been around this world so many times,
    If you could only see my mind,
    I watch my secret heaven turn to hell. . .
    I haven't even got a soul to sell
    Running Out of Time from Down to Earth by Ozzy Osbourne
    According to Ozzy, peace, joy, happiness and real purpose are not there.
    Ozzy sadly says, if he could change anything, it would be to have serenity and peace he's been longing for since he was a kid:
    "If I could change anything about myself, I'd give myself serenity I've been looking for since I was a kid."
    (Harry Shaw, Ozzy Talking, p. 126)
    What about you?
    Friend, fame and fortune can not satisfy that hunger in your soul. All the riches of the world can not fill the hole in your soul.
    The Word of God says in 1 Timothy 5:6 that person, like Ozzy and some of you, that lives for pleasure is "dead" while they live. What a perfect description of Ozzy and so many others — ". . .dead while they liveth. . ."
    But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
    1 Timothy 5:6
    The lives of the rich and the famous, the ones that have found the "pot of gold" are some of the most miserable, unhappy and tormented people in the world.
    The popular singer, Mariah Carey was recently treated for severe depression and anxiety.

    Whitney Houston has admitted to heavy drug usage, depression and emptiness.

    Backstreet Boys, member A.J. McLean recently entered rehab for severe depression and alcohol abuse.

    Melanie C of the Spice Girls recently cancelled her UK tour because she is suffering from severe recurring depression.

    Guns and Roses recently canceled their tour because of the severe problems of lead singer, Axle Rose.

    On and on, the story is the same. . . Only the names change.
    There is only one that satisfy and fill that hole in your soul . . .
    ONLY ONE. . .
    If there ever was anyone that could testify to the satisfaction that fame and fortune could bring — it was Elvis Presley.
    Elvis Presley had it all. . .
    Fame. . .
    Fortune. . .
    Fulfillment. . .
    Adoration . . .
    Fans . . .
    Talent . . .
    But despite all Elvis had — he lacked — any real happiness or joy.
    David Stanley, Elvis’s step-brother, in Life Magazine, June 1990, describes the tragic last days in the life of Elvis Presley:
    "Elvis’s day was night. By four a.m. he had been lucid for perhaps eight hours. Now it was time for him to tune out. . . he would turn to the aide on duty and say: ‘Gimme my first attack.’
    The attendant would break out a small yellow envelope containing 11 different pills [barbiturates such as Amytal, Carbrital, Nembutal, or Seconal, and also Placidyl, Quaaludes and Valium] and three shots of Demerol. Elvis would hold out a cupped hand, and the attendant would fill it with brightly colored tablets and capsules. He would swallow the pills one by one with a glass of water. Next, he would stand up and remove his pajama top, exposing his back, into which — on either side of the spine beneath the shoulder blades — were thrust the little needles of the plastic disposable syringes. . .
    Mixing any of these drugs requires great caution. By taking them all at once, Elvis was risking his life every day. He became a pharmaceutical freak. Dr. Norman Weissman, the pathologist who compiled the toxicology report after Elvis’s death, testified that he had never seen so many drugs in one body. . .
    In about four hours Elvis would begin to stir. Though he was so drugged he couldn’t speak, his feeble efforts to get out of bed would indicate that he wanted to go to the bathroom. With great difficulty the aide would then hoist the boss’s 250-pound body onto his back, transport him in a fireman’s carry, deposit him on the toilet, then carry him back to bed again. . . Elvis would tug at his attendant’s shirt. This was the signal for his second attack. Another yellow envelope (inscribed ‘second attack’) would appear, but this time the job of administering all these drugs was difficult. The aide had to insert the pills one by one into Elvis’s mouth and gingerly manipulate the water glass, taking great care not to choke him.
    Elvis would quickly fall asleep again. At 10. A.m. he received his third attack. This final load would sink him until mid-afternoon, when he woke up groggy and disoriented. At this point he needed a different type of drug. And aide would insert cotton swabs soaked in liquid cocaine into his nostrils, and then Elvis would grab from his drug-strewn beside table a handful of Dexedrines to jump-start his heart.
    When asked what could possibly justify such a monstrous, life-threatening routine, David Stanley answers by quoting Elvis himself: ‘I’d rather be unconscious than miserable.’ (Life Magazine, June 1990, p.101, as told by David Stanley, Elvis’s step-brother)
    After gathering what most people only dream of, Elvis lived a horrible drug induced stupor and in the end could only say, "I’d rather be unconscious than miserable."
    Despite the incredible fame and fortune Elvis accumulated he was one miserable soul. . .
    Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness.
    Psalm 52:7
    The "abundance of riches" can never satisfy.
    There is only one that can satisfy that huge hole in your soul . . .
    ONLY ONE. . .
    Only the Lord Jesus Christ can fill that hole in your soul!
    Only the Lord Jesus Christ can satisfy that emptiness in your soul!
    People, for thousands of years, have tried to fill that huge empty hole with drugs, fame, power, wealth, purpose, alcohol, sex, you name it – but only Jesus can fill that hole.
    Even the deluded, psychiatrist and occultist, Carl Jung recognized this emptiness:
    "About a third of my cases are suffering from no clinically definable neurosis but from the senselessness and emptiness of their lives".
    Dr. Rollo May, a well-known, New York psychiatrist, wrote:
    "It may seem surprising when I say on the basis of my own clinical experience that the chief problem of the middle decade of the 20th century is emptiness. . ."
    Rock music author, Danny Sugerman, acknowledged and documented this emptiness:
    "We run from one event to another, driven from devotion to devotion, to one object to another and again on to another, because the meaning of each quickly vanishes and the creative eros is transformed into indifference or aversion. Everything is tried and nothing satisfies. . .

    Everything around us promises relief—but nothing works. . .
    We are led to expect gratification and it never happens. We are dying of a thirst and the buckets all have holes."
    (Sugerman, Danny, Appetite for Destruction: The Days of Guns ‘N Roses, p. 45)
    Sugerman went on to narrow down the reason for this emptiness:
    "From the time we can speak, we are bombarded with the message that we alone are not enough: take this; buy this; have this; fell better, stronger, safer, sexier, more desirable, more secure, more powerful, and none of it works because we’re looking in the wrong place. . .

    Drugs and music, seen in this context, are only the most available (and temporarily effective) solutions to a rampant spiritual malnourishment."
    (Sugerman, Danny, Appetite for Destruction: The Days of Guns ‘N Roses, p. 46)
    "A rampant spiritual malnourishment" – exactly right!
    And that "rampant spiritual malnourishment" can only be satisfied with the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Only Jesus can satisfy that emptiness. . .
    No amount of wealth. . .
    No great purpose . . .
    No drug. . .
    No high . . .
    No pleasure . . .
    No amount of fame and fortune . . .
    Absolutely nothing but Jesus Christ can fill that empty hole in your soul.
    1 Timothy 5:6 gives the "result" of this "pleasure seeking" generation:
    But she that liveth in pleasure is DEAD while she liveth. 1 Timothy 5:6
    Pleasure alone will not satisfy. . .
    It will only leave you empty and – more dead than alive.
    Dead . . . Depressed . . . Discouraged . . . Destitute. . .
    Disappointed . . . Discontent . . . Dissatisfied . . .
    You can fill your life with all the pleasures, wealth, fame, and fortune this world could possibly offer and you will not be satisfied!
    Not in Fame —
    Voltaire the famous infidel, wrote in despair:
    "I wish I had never been born"
    Not in Pleasure —
    Lord Byron lived a life of pleasure and grandeur, he wrote:
    "The worm, the canker, and grief are mine alone."
    Not in Wealth —
    Millionaire, Jay Gould, as he was dying cried:
    "I suppose I am the most miserable man on earth"
    Not in Position and Fame —
    Lord Beaconsfield wrote:
    "Youth is a mistake; manhood a struggle; old age a regret."
    Not in Power —
    Alexander the Great conquered the known world of his day, and still wasn't satisfied.
    Having conquered all, he wept in his tent and cried:
    "There are no more worlds to conquer".
    As Proverbs 27:20 truthfully says:
    ". . . the eyes of man are NEVER SATISFIED."
    The only one that can satisfy and bring real joy in your life is the Lord Jesus Christ!

    Quoted from Jesus is Savior.
    Shinto and Christianity are Diametrically Oppossed
    The religion of Shinto is in opposition to Christianity. In its purest form it teaches the superiority of the Japanese people and their land above all others on earth and that is diametrically opposed to the teaching of the Bible. According to the Bible, the Jews are God's chosen people through whom He entrusted His words. "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God" (Romans 3:1,2). However, though the Jews are God's chosen people, they have never been designated better than any other people (Galatians 3:27), and they've never been taught that they were direct descendants of the gods, as Shinto teaches its people. Thus, Shinto is Satanic!
    Shinto fosters a pride and a feeling of superiority in the Japanese people. This type of pride is condemned by God, who says, "...There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10). The same lesson was learned by the Apostle Peter who concluded: "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons" (Acts 10:34). Since Shinto teaches the basic goodness and divine origin of its people, there is no need for a personal Savior. This is the natural consequence of assuming one's race is of celestial origin. Christianity teaches that all of us need a savior because our sins need to be punished. God, through Jesus Christ, took that punishment on Himself so that all mankind could be brought back into a proper relationship with Him. Jesus plainly stated in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
    Furthermore, the Kojiki and Nihongi, as the basis of the Shinto myth, are found to be hopelessly unhistorical and totally unverifiable. The stories and legends contained in these works are a far cry from the historically verifiable documents of both the Old and New Testaments. The concept of kami is both polytheistic and crude, surrounded by much superstition. This is in sharp contrast to the God of the Bible, whose ways are righteous and beyond reproach. Immorality abounds in the stories of Shinto; while the Bible is quick to condemn acts of immorality (Matthew 5:28).
    Shinto finds little acceptance apart from Japan since everything of Japanese origin is exalted and that which is non-Japanese is abased. Shinto is a textbook example of a religion invented by man to explain his ancestry and environment while taking no consideration of anyone but himself. While Shinto teaches that the kami might commune with those who have made themselves worthy through ritual purification, the God of the Bible promises to be present to anyone who calls upon Him for forgiveness (Romans 10:13). No amount of personal purification (a form of salvation by works) will make a person worthy of the presence of God in his life (Romans 4:5). Only faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross can accomplish cleansing from sin and make us acceptable to a holy God... “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” (2nd Corinthians 5:21). What a wonderful Savior!
    "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -Acts 4:10-12

    The Bible describes man's wickedness and sin nature to a "t." No other book upon the earth addresses the sinfulness of mankind as does the Bible...
    I believe that everyone is born with the same desire to seek and know God and make God a part of their lives but some people suppress it and replace it with other gods.
     
  5. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    I hope you start ignoring me.

    You, or google, are not worth my time.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  6. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does it matter how you see Him?

    He is God and He will do what He wants. I don't think he cares if you are shaking your fist at Him. I imagine when you are in Hell you would prefer to be anywhere else.
     
  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Does it matter if you follow a moral ideology or not, you ask.

    If you do not you are not much of a person.

    But if you are going to let fear decide who you follow and not his goodness, have at it.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  8. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who decides what is moral?

    And you can refuse to follow but you know the consequences. I imagine after about two minutes you'd be willing to follow anything. People tend to think suffering is no big deal, lol.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  9. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Who does your bible say decides, and why are you not following it's advice, lazy? ;-)

    In fact, why are you going against what your bible says you should do, sinner?

    Let me give you the pertinent quotes as well as my motivation. Believe that or not. That last is a tough one for most.

    My intent.
    Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

    Your tools Spooky.
    Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

    The best mind set to have while judging.
    1 Corinthians 2:15 (KJV) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.

    Be spiritual Spooky.

    As to your last, yes, there is a wide range of suffering and we all have limits and challenges.

    Nice though that we have reduced it so much, per capita that is, over time. The numbers of anecdotal rendering is of course deplorable.

    I hate the fact that our governments are creating poverty with their tax laws when it would just take the loose change from rich pockets to end poverty. Oh well.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  10. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Sigh. If you are to let fear rule your life and think your god to be that big of a prick, ----



    You say he is god. That shows that you do not mind lying.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would rather be given eternal joy and be afraid than be brave and suffer endless torture. I will wave to your brave self on your way down because those are your only options. I will tremble in fear as I drink my margarita on a cloud but you be brave while your fingernails are ripped out over and over again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  12. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Sympathies for your view of your wonderful heaven.

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I could be wrong... I often am.. but the near death experience account of former Atheist Rabbi Alon Anava reminds me in many ways of Matthew chapter four..... and his teachings since his NDE remind me of Matthew chapters five, six and seven, (the Sermon on the Mount).

    Some near death experiencers are shown that they are connected to one of the Elohim.... the Seven Spirits of G-d in a special way. Not all near death experiencers are shown that... but some are...... and I believe from John chapters fifteen to seventeen... as well as John chapter one that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus probably had elements of a near death experience during his forty days of fasting..... and yes.... he probably knew that his over soul connected to the Word - Logos who I assume is the eldest of the Seven Spirits of G-d..... (who are actually twins, seven male and seven female according to some near death experiencers).


    Christian Andreason, chapter three.....
    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/
     
  14. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for going off topic.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  15. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Why would the apostles make up embarrassing details about Jesus if they were trying to make up a story like Greek mythology? Jesus is God. He said my god my god why has thou forsaken me, on the cross, because He felt separation from God the Father. He was also telling the crowds the messianic prophecy in Psalm 22. What you said about the Jews and Jesus is an example of embarrassing details.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criterion_of_embarrassment

     
  16. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    So you think Jesus felt separate, even as he was talking to his father.

    Quite the stretch.

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Jesus and God the Father have the same essence and divine nature. They are not different personalities. Jesus was temporarily separated from the Father. The Trinity is mentioned even in the Old Testament. Heres a quote from Genesis 1:26 in the Bible. Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". This article explains details about the New Testament, like the detail about Jesus feeling separated from the Father.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-sayings-Christ.html

     
  18. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    One cannot separate from an all and ever present god.

    Look up omni-present.

    For a god who knows everything, all three heads, you sure have one telling the other what to do.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  19. skepticalmike

    skepticalmike Well-Known Member

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    Jesus didn't believe that he was Yahweh according to Bart Ehrman, New Testament scholar. That view is only present in the Gospel of John.

    According the Gospel of Mark, believed to be the earliest gospel, Jesus was purely human and adopted by Yahweh after he was baptized.

    I agree that Jesus seems very different from Yahweh, but I don't regard the gospels to be reliable history so we don't know much, if anything,

    about Jesus.
     
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  20. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Jesus is God. In the Gospel of John, He said before Abraham was, I am. Jesus being the Son of God is a reference to the Sonship of God, not being adopted. Jesus is in the Old Testament, and Jesus in the New Testament is said to be the judge of all people. God is holy and just in both the Old and New Testament. Hundreds of people saw Jesus after His ressurection. The gospels are reliable history. https://carm.org/jesus-chist/does-the-bible-identify-jesus-as-jehovah

     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  21. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It is an ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale and not reality. Fairy tale characters can be whatever you them to be., except real.
     
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  22. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    The Bible is God's word, not a fairy tale. The ressurection of Jesus is based off of historical events, not mythology. https://www.compellingtruth.org/Bible-fairy-tale.html

     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Jesus of Mark and Matt was not "The Father" "The Most High" "Creator God" and so on. In Mark Jesus is deified as a man of 30 and always refers to "The Father" as someone other than himself.

    In Matt the divinity of Jesus has advanced .. divine at birth .. but not not the Father.

    The Jesus of John - who comes decades later after the Church beliefs have evolved - along with ideas over the nature of Christs divinity. in John Jesus is presented as pre-existing with God. Notice the last words of Jesus are not longer "my god my god" as in the first two earlier Gospels - as that doesn't quite fit the new narrative.

    Even in John though - Jesus is not depicted as "The Father" - it takes another 200 years for Jesus to ascend to that level. "Co-Equal" with the Father - via not scripture but man made dogma.
     
  24. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Jesus said I and the Father are one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  25. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Intelligent.

    What is your moral judgement of both and of the religions they produced?

    P.M. if shy.

    Regards
    DL
     

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