Whole Foods CEO: Socialism means 'trickle up poverty' that 'impoverishes everything'

Yes, they are...

 

Why do republicans constantly trot out this old strawman? It never ends.

Okay, for the millionth time.....

Nobody is advocating 'classic' socialism, ie., 'total state takeover of all means of production and distribution' not even Bernie is for that.

So, the point is moot.

There is no such thing as pure capitalism. All western nations are a mixed economy.

However, as is often the case, if we are defining 'socialism' as government programs, then...

Capitalism, without socialism, will devour itself.

Socialism, without capitalism, will crush under it's own weight

Both need each other as man needs woman, as night needs day, as black needs white, as rain needs sunshine, as yin needs yang, etc.

Dichotomies are the fabric of nature, and to kill one side of the equation is going against nature, and is therefore insane.

By the way, no group loves 'other people's money' more than capitalists. particularly Donald Trump.

The very word, 'capitalism' means collecting interest (earning a return, etc) on what will often be other people's money. Investment is based on this idea. Banking is based on this idea. The only difference is that with socialism (per the latter definition, above), capital contribution is via legislation, and the 'return' is social betterment, and with capitalism, it is done voluntarily with risk for financial benefit. BOTH are necessary, very necessary, for any nation to survive.

Between opposing forces, where does the pendulum rest?

It rests upon arrival at DEAD CENTER

 

Socialism mandates equality of results in bitter protest to the natural law that not everyone is actually equal. Society will always value net producers higher than net consumers until we can find a way around resource scarcity. Ignoring this dynamic because its not very nice doesn't nullify it.

 

It is still to the left of center and is headed further to the left next year.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...shes-everything.581767/page-2#post-1072247915

 

What does a person who gets rich from the stock market produce?

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...shes-everything.581767/page-2#post-1072247915

 

It's an illusion, the pendulum has swung to the right, then the left, then the right, over an over for years, we have yet to achieve the equilibrium. Thing is, the right and the left, but especially the right, must understand that both forces are constants and cannot be eliminated, so co-existence and compromise to find that sweet spot is where harmony is. My view is that the sweet spot is left of center, though it may be, in point of fact, dead center in terms of equilibrium, it's just that it will look left of center, politically.

 

On IPOs, something.

On non IPOs, nothing. It's just digital paper going from hand to hand.

 

Ok on a IPO what does he produce?

 

I heard a panel debate with him recently, which was pretty good:

https://www.intelligencesquaredus.o...19_-_iq2-_capitalism_is_a_blessing_edited.pdf

Both he and the other proponent of capitalism make the mistake to attribute the high and growing living standards in the last century to capitalism. That is a conclusion based on correlation, rather than causation. The REAL cause of the high living standards is cheap energy. Capitalism existed long before the last 100-200 years. Yet, 90+% people still lived in abject poverty. Why? Because they didn't have cheap energy. Once the cheap energy goes away, capitalism will revert to the system it was before, working for the rich, but failing the masses.

 

I don't always know what I want for dinner. I doubt government planners will be any better at knowing what I want for dinner today weeks or months in advance and making sure it is in the grocery store for me this afternoon.

 

They want to give illegals stimulous checks too.


Dems demand immigrants without Individual Taxpayer ...
www.nydailynews.com › coronavirus › ny-coronavirus...
Aug 7, 2020 — Dozens of House Democrats called on congressional leaders Friday to make sure that the next coronavirus relief bill bankrolls stimulus checks ...

 

AGAIN.....NOBODY is proposing socialism.

Why do you have make things up ?

 

It's a temporary pittance. You're gonna need a lot more than that.

 

It's OUR $, American citizens. He also wants to fine us for not buying worthless OCare and give "free" health care to illegals. The only thing illegals deserve is a one way bus ticket to our border.

 

People who invest in the stock market provide capital for companies to expand, to hire more workers, do R&D. That investment helps make the companies become more valuable and to compete in the market place. If one become wealthy helping others succeed more power to them. Most Americans retirement, child education, and health savings accounts are in that market so in addition to making some rich, it provides economic long term security to the middle class.

 

Providing capital to an entrepeneur, in exchange for return, is an exchange.

I give you money to invest in your business, a business in which you produce something, you pay me for that service.

That payment could paid as interest ( bonds )

or as equity share (stocks ).

the product produced is whatever the corporation uses it for, expansion, equipment, etc, or a new start up.

That is why an IPO produces 'something'

But, a non IPO is just digital paper circulating, just like a piece of art, when purchased, held for profit at a later date, produces nothing.

It is my view that stock purchases should not be in the digital sphere, but certificates issued, ( like in the old days ) required to be held for at least 3 months, and sold via a physical clearing house, and ALL IPOs should be granted first to employees, and then everyone else. I believe this would end the volatility of the market. I will, of course, subject that view to more study, listening to counter arguments, etc, as I'm not an expert on the subject.

 

That's fine, FB. I oppose illegal immigration as well, though my opinion has been tempered over the last 35 years. Your opinion on illegal immigration is irrelevant to the fact that a one-time stimulus check to illegals is not indicative of a "free stuff" campaign. It's a drop in the bucket. Inconsequential. It's a stimulus. You'll need more than this.

I'm predicting a vibrant economy maybe by mid 2022, with record low levels of "free stuff."

 

So they don't actually produce anything.

 

Opportunity.

 

Stock trading does not provide capital for companies. IPO's provide capital. After that, the trades produce nothing.

 

Ah, the old 'we don't want full socialism, just more socialism' argument.

How much socialism is too much for you?

 

On IPOs, I would agree, but on non IPOs, it's just a quasi-ponzi scheme, digital paper going from one hand to another. I support stock purchase ownership mandated for a period of time, to remove the volatility of the market, and the removal of computers from making stock purchases. I will subject that view to further study and listening to counter arguments.