What will win the god wars? Faith, Fantasy, Facts, or God?

What will win the god wars? Faith, Fantasy, Facts, or God?

We are all either using religious or secular moral codes to live by; based on faith, fantasy, facts, or our imagined gods?

As we live and learn, we decide which of the above should take first place as reality and we decide to be believers in a supernatural or fantasy-based god or not.

Religion Has No Earthly Purpose, So Why Do We Cling to It? | Reza Aslan - YouTube

We only have mythos and logos to answer the question, is God real?

Books of wisdom, the bible and Qur’an being pathetic late comers, ask us to come and reason about God, yet most come to do long winded, bla bla bla posts, and quote others, and thus do not learn how to reason.

Reason has lost, but what do you think will win the God war? Faith, fantasy, facts, or our imagined Gods?

I say my God. I am.

Regards
DL

 

There is only one moral code, might is right, depressing but true.
I think civilisation as we know it will destroy it self before we see an answer to your question.

 

Civilization has been improving throughout human history.

We ARE learning how to live together on this planet.

We know it is NOT about "might makes right". Our founders explained that. Our experience has proven that.

We could kill life on Earth. There are a lot of humans that profoundly stupid.

We could also continue to improve civilization.

 

There are a number of moral codes, but stats say that 70 odd % of us all give a reciprocity code first place.

I can agree that we might go extinct in the next generation or two if we do not collectively smarten up.

We need a one world government if we are to save ourselves. The planet, to itself, is nine,

It is humans that are screw up.

Regards
DL

 

Sorry I disagree, we have learnt that many joined together can defeat one mighty individual, but in the end that is just the might of the many, ultimately we rely on someone using violence of some sort if all else fails.

 

You have to recognize our progress concerning freedom of religion from the state, of humans having inalienable rights, of equality of mankind, of the need for international agreement on a seriously broad range of issues, our serious dependence on world trade, our movement beyond torture as a method of finding truth, capitalism, movement away from systems of unitary leadership such as dictatorships, our movement away from capital punishment, our recognition that war is a breakdown, not a solution, etc., etc.

Pitching the existence of enforcement as a justification for suggestig we've made no progress is not legit. Obviously we do have some real trouble with our envorcement strategies, but we're also way beter than was the case when we were founded as a nation. And, there are other countries that have made serious progress, too - as improving civilization is an Earth issue, not a US issue.

I know we can look at our civilization today and find factors that are more than just disappointing.

But, we are making progress and doing something other than contributing to that progress is not acceptable.

 

One good thing about Christianity is that there isn't a "reciprocity code".

Instead, we have the record of the acts of Jesus and his statements in Matthew 25:30 to the end of the chapter.

 

Morality is a human construct the same as values are.

They don't exist other than in our minds.

What ultimately decides them is two or more people agreeing that something is just or unjust so your question is a bit off.

The answer is that whatever two people want to use as their criteria is what will win and in the species itself it will be governed by whatever is most popular at that moment.

This is why all your posts claiming God is immoral make no sense. Morality is a made up thing and not real so unless God has equals around Him setting up those values then morality does not and cannot apply to Him.

 

Some of us have progressed.

It cannot be said that the mainstream religions have progressed, given their homophobic and misogynous teachings.

The last thing our vile religions preach is equality of all souls.

Gnostic Christianity does and perhaps that is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL

 

No do unto others code in Christianity???

That is why they are such a holes against gays and women.

I think they have one, so disagree with you, but agree that they do not live by thinking of others. At least not anymore.

Regards
DL

 

That explains why he is such a vile genocidal piece of garbage, just like his homophobic and misogynous church.

Regards
DL

 

No, it means you are applying a human creation to a non-human.

It's like if you were to get upset with an animal that Kills another animal. My cat murders things for no reason other then she enjoys killing but it would be silly for me to call her a murderer and send her to kitty Prison.

But this is what you are doing with God.

Do you see the foolishness of that?

 

Can your cat cure as well as kill the way god can?

Thanks for showing how poorly you think.

What I do with god is what scriptures tell me to do. Judge him and reject his immoral ass.

You might try following your bible. It would teach you to do better than what you do.

Regards
DL

 

What does curing have to do with anything?

Sounds like you are getting desperate to keep justifying your hate of God.

 

That is quite easy to justify as I follow the bible that you do not.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You are holding fast to a genocidal garbage god.

What do you find compelling is such a demonstrably immoral god and his immoral religion?

Is your moral sense so un-important to you?

Regards
DL

 

I think the golden rule has a flaw. It calls for a person to consider what kind of judgement/treatment one might personally accept. So, it's pretty easy to say that if I did x, I would accept harsh treatment as being warranted, so I'm going to dish harsh treatment.

I like Matthew 25:30 on. It has nothing to do with allowing an individual to make that kind of judgement. Jesus directs his followers to seek out those in prisons, the poor, etc., and give them the aid and support they need.

Help those who need help, no judgement allowed, even devout followers of Jesus can be damned for failing at this.

That's also consistent with his demonstration of serving sinners and immigrants. No discrimination. We're all humans.

 

It's hard for religion to progress very rapidly, as everything about a religion can be seen as absolute and any advance can therefore be seen as heresy.

But, Christianity has progressed. The Christian idea of the position of women in society is moving forward. The majority of Americans sees same sex marriage as the way it needs to be - and with a majority at least claiming to be Christians that's indicative of change. We used to have a lot more Christians who actually see other races and ethnicities as being marked by Cain (or whatever) indicating subhuman status. We see Christians working in all the fields of science, even though those fields don't support a literal genesis view It may be ridiculously slow, but it does exist.

Even the last couple of Popes have moved to viewing science and religion as separate realms, accepting the principle that one can't just say that science is wrong, because it doesn't present a literal Genesis.

It's still important to push on change, as the whole idea of a literal Genesis breeds contempt for education, knowledge, etc.

 

As humans, we discriminate either for or against issues and people constantly. Our selfish gene demands it of us.

We, for survival purposes, gravitate to and discriminate for those we see as good peers.

We discriminate negatively against those we think are evil peers. We do this even as babies.

Mat 25 is exactly what you say it is not. It judges worthlessness and show the Golden Rule at work.

How can you judge who needs help without judging?

You don't seem to know how to apply a reciprocity rule.

Regards
DL

 

Your blanket statement on Christians I reject.

You are talking the left wing moderate policies and changed to the better morals, while including the right wing literalist loonies.

Sure they have changed, thank to secular law clipping their more immoral killing tendencies.

They have almost completely stopped murdering gays. Yay.

Now if the religious would just stop discriminating against women and gays without a just cause.

Then they would be showing good morals and ethics, instead of their satanic morals.

I hate hypocrites.

Regards
DL

 

Yes, we spend a lot of time in judgement of others. And, that is a serious problem.

Matthew 25:30 on says nothing about judging. It says we must search prisons, poor houses, hospitals to find people who have needs and to supply their needs.

That has nothing to do with judgement of the person - why they are in prison, why they are poor, why they are sick, where they are from, how they are spending their time in their current condition, etc.

Jesus never gives humans the task of judging others - other than possibly as examples of behavior that we should ourselves not take part in.

 

no one will "win", religions will come and go, same as always

 

The majority of Americans profess to be Christians.

If America did those things we see as improvement it had to come with significant support of Christians. Our system doesn't allow for another way.

Christians don't all agree on everything, obviously, so there are those who want nurses to be allowed to deny their professional help to those they hate - a GROSS transgression of the Bible. There are other examples. But, I don't agree that it is legit to paint all Christianity with that one brush.

 

God is not of our species so why would human morals apply to Him?

 

It's a little more complex than that.

God helped Joshua slaughter every man, woman, baby and animal in Jericho, a genocidal event which is then used as a threat against other cities should they not immediately surrender to Joshua. And, the reason for these acts is property acquisition.

That is the morality the God helped mankind implement.

From there I think it's not too hard to see issues with God's morality as it is more than just his - it is his gift to mankind. It's not limited to Joshua's conquests. There are other examples.

He trains us in the morality of slaughtering humans in order to gain property.

So, today we have Israel (again) using ethnic cleansing against the indigenous peoples of the region where they want land owned by others - a milder form of God's training of Joshua in the benefits of actual genocide.

Kudos to Israel for not slaughtering every man, woman and child, I guess.

 

As I said in another thread it's like saying you have no morals because you spray an ant hill and kill them by the thousands.

Their life has no value to you.

Humans are a lot closer to an ant then they are a God.

You may say that's different because ant's aren't intelligent but humans aren't intelligent compared to God.

You, like others here, are treating God as if He were human, He's not, He is superior to you as you are superior to an ant.