Race and Crime

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by Conservative Democrat, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Whatever makes your capitalism funded armchair more comfortable, dear! Socialism is the polar opposite of 'every man for himself', of course .. so I don't expect your chair to stay comfy long. Enjoy.

    2) It does? Are you in upside down land or somink? If MANY DIFFERENT races are able to help themselves in America, I would say that means the opposite.
     
  2. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    A fraudulent non-answer, Trump was dumped for less. You are the only 'everyman for himself' "socialist" on the planet. eg , if you can't subsist in a city, go the the regions to buy a dump and live on welfare...smart advice...oh, and get your relatives to look after you in a nursing home...

    That was YOUR contention: namely, why can't blacks succeed when every other race can
    succeed.

    Here it is again:

    Why don't you ask the Chinese. Or the black skinned South Indians now dominating the American tech sector. Or the Nigerian surgeons leading ace teams in your best hospitals.
    some blacks Do succeed and mnay people of oher races DO NOT succeed.

    The truth is ....s
    ome blacks succeed, and some people in all other races do not.

    Therefore your race-based theories are nonsense.
     
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  3. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Oh, you left out the best part of my post.....ignoring reason (science) and going with the "gut" and ideology seems to be a common thread among you and your compatriots. The stressors involve the environment, the culture of poverty and family dynamics. Nowhere have I suggested that the 11% of Americans who live in poverty are doomed to "doing crime". Those few who are affected by chronic stress in early childhood are more likely to be susceptible to falling into crime and there are ways to prevent it according to science, but it takes outside help.

    You call yourself "far left". So does that make you an Authoritarian lefty? Whatever that is. Communist? No matter, you don't seem to understand US history. Blacks have systematically been prevented from accumulating wealth and that has lead to 45% of African Americans that live below middle class and 20% live in poverty, which is an improvement compared to the past.

    I'm not sure how skimming off the talent of Nigeria and India leaving their poor and impoverished countries makes you point, when we have plenty of blacks here making a buck off their talents.
     
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  4. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What's your point exactly?

    More crime = more arrests.

    Yes, they are mostly killed by other blacks.

    This doesn't take into account repeat offenders. If a black first time murderer gets a harsher sentence than a white first time murderer in the same state, then you would have something.

    Does this take into consideration behaviour in prison?

    Who had such a flag?
     
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  5. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I proved that white people commit more crimes, but statistically black people get arrested 250% more.
    So more crime =/= more arrests.

    Black people statistically get killed more often than white people. We all know the examples like Floyd and Garner that just pushes the statistics that black people are treated much harsher than white people.


    It actually DOES take into account repeat offenders.
    Black people simply get longer sentences under the SAME circumstances, generally speaking.
    The stats do not lie. Black people are treated much harsher than white people.

    have a wild guess.

    You hinting that the attack on the capital was a false flag event... is just a fascist conspiracy.
    Are you pushing that fascist conspiracy?
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Every man for himself is the motto of the individualist capitalist, dear! IOW Progressives, who think they shouldn't have to be answerable to anyone. As a collectivist, I'm virulently opposed to that model - just like all other collectivists are. Of course you probably don't actually know any collectivists, since your experience of same is limited to the BS version spouted by Progressives (ie, individualist capitalists).

    2) Exactly my point. It has nothing to do with RACE.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) The environment has nothing to do with it. Slum dwellers in Bangladesh have it a thousand times worse. This is ALL about culture and choices.

    2) What stress in early childhood? The same stress that the poorest of Bangladesh experience? And who DON'T end up doing crime? Make no mistake .. this cannot be fixed from the outside.

    3) History - don't let it impede your future. Worker harder, do better. That's how the Chinese and Indians do it. They don't let the stupidity of white people and the horrors of the past stand in their way. That's why they'll be running the planet in the not too distant future.

    4) It makes the very important point that it has nothing to do with race or colour.
     
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  8. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    IOW ...your reversal of the common meaning of terms results in total nonsense, disgraceful in fact.

    Everyone has a duty to earn his living, ie everyone is answerable to the community.

    Bernie Sanders is a 'democratic socialist' (by his own mouth) ie.a 'progressive', who proposes an economy that works for all. He believes in a social contract between citizens and the community. He does not think 'progressives are answerable to no-one'.

    In the last 12 months, billionaires have increased their wealth (mainly through asset price appreciation) while the poorest have sunk further into poverty - except in countries like Australia whose government could support businesses and the unemployed....but now those supports are soon to be removed. That will be very messy, while international borders are still closed, and thousands of businesses and there employees are still impacted by the pandemic.

    As usual you ignore the macroeconomic realities facing individuals,

    Speaking of BS, you can define 'collectivist' however you like; but access to above poverty employment is THE feature of state collectivism.

    You are talking about a weird individualist conception of "collectivism" ie, looking after your own family, in an environment of 'everyone looking after himself', a variation on Maggie's awful "there is no such thing as community" meme.

    But even Boris Johnson has learned "we are all in this together", after his near-death experience. with Covid-19.

    But everything to do with systemic disadvantage related to cultural background and history. (eg black unemployment rates c.50% in Australia; youth underemployment rates c.15% even BEFORE the pandemic.
     
  9. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    So now we see your Libertarian-"collectivist" view on display, ie people "choose" poverty.
    More disgraceful nonsense.

    More Libertarian lies.

    The stress of living in a family without one adult working ie experiencing generational unemployment. Note: Australia's unemployment rate has been >5% for the 4 decades of neoliberalism since 1980, except for 3 years immediately before the GFC when it briefly dipped to 4%; hence the generational unemployment in Australia.

    Yes, well Marxist China will soon have the most powerful economy in the world, with ZERO unemployment and zero poverty......

    Meanwhile you don't understand that the capitalist West has been draining the most talented members from the poorest countries.

    Right. Some people of all races are successful, some are not. But you cannot conclude that therefore everyone can succeed, given macroeconomic realities, including unemployment levels in the Western neoliberal system. {Even Trump's 'golden age' in America before the pandemic, had U6 + those who have given up looking for work >10%.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes, we're all obliged to be answerable - there should be no free rides. We're NOT obliged to pick up the slack of those who refuse to be answerable.

    2) Bernie Sanders is an authoritarian capitalist, just like all Progressives. And FTR, a 'community' is a specific group predicated on long standing relationships and/or shared finite geography (the village). If people are not personally and equally answerable to each other within the context of that type of group - motived by familiarity, proximity, and stability over a long period of time - there is no community. Millions of strangers is NOT a community. But it's not all bad - I mean if we all looked after our own communities, Bernie might one day be able to declare himself a real socialist! After all, he'd be able to give up the capitalism he needs to fund his medieval model.

    3) State Socialism is a dangerous nonsense. In order to have a collectivist model at the state level, you MUST have totalitarianism. Less than 1% of First Worlders will ever volunteer for collectivism, so the only way you'll get it is via force.

    4) No, that's what YOU are seeking. You're seeking an individualist model in which no one is obliged to build or sustain community. You're motivated by individualism and capitalism. You want nothing to do with common purse collectivism.

    5) BS, sorry. I'm a part of the non-white side of Australia, and every POC I know over the age of 30 is at least middle class. And some of them are very very wealthy. You should probably know that quite a few of my friends and relatives laugh at how 'dumb, trashy, and poor' white people are - at the same time as celebrating their willingness to be rent slaves :D. You really need to get out more, Love. Mix with the coloured folk a bit. You'll have an epiphany, I guarantee it. Won't be a pleasant awakening, but it will be an important one. Once you've recalibrated your awful outdated ideas on the helplessness of brown people, you can start to mind your own business. We don't need your 'help'. We haven't needed it since 1970. While you're at it, might be a good time to start preparing your kids for a future cleaning our pools and mowing our lawns. Of course, they'll rent their dingy houses and flats from the coloured folk, too ..
     
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  11. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    You're saying that white people commit more drug related crimes, right?

    You mean they statistically get killed more by the cops?

    Can you name just one WHITE unarmed person who was killed by a cop? Even just ONE SINGLE example?

    Alright, well if the stats don't lie, then you should be confident enough in them to link to them!

    I'm guessing that it does NOT take into consideration behaviour in prison.

    What the hell are you talking about? You said, "American flag with a blue stripe in it." What did you mean by that? You obviously didn't mean false flag!
     
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  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It's a fact
    https://www.hamiltonproject.org/cha...y_race_rates_of_drug_related_criminal_justice

    yes

    Do it yourself. My point stands: We all know the examples like Floyd and Garner that just pushes the statistics that black people are treated much harsher than white people.

    https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing
    Black male offenders continued to receive longer sentences than similarly situated White male offenders. Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders during the Post-Report period (fiscal years 2012-2016), as they had for the prior four periods studied. The differences in sentence length remained relatively unchanged compared to the Post-Gall period.

    Systemic racism is just blatantly waving at the word by the US government own research on their own statistics.
    Yet people, like you, refuse to acknowledge it.

    When white people get away 250% less arrests while they are punching above their weight.
    When white people get 19,1% shorter sentence on average compared to black people under a similar situation.
    And it ends up that white people get less disciplinary sanctions in jail,.. and you conclude out of nowhere that it must be justified without any evidence...
    Than you're just keen on being dishonest and do what it takes to claim there is no systemic racism.

    Go fish.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  13. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    You do have a valid point, as accidental as it may be. Race has nothing to do with crime rate but poverty does. France has about the same crime rate as the US. It's poverty rate is 14%. Ours is 9% for whites and 20% for blacks. I have proven in the past that the arrest rate is approximately equal between whites and blacks if the poverty rate is taken into account. I have provided scientific studies that account for the increased possibility of making poor choices due to life stressors associated with poverty.
    Your opinions are without foundation.
     
  14. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Poverty? so people wearing expensive designer clothing, and ridiculously expense tennis shoes, and toting around expensive cell phones are impoverished? A Culture promotes criminality, not poverty.
     
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  15. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    My, you've got everything figured out. 55% of blacks are middle-class and above. They are as law abiding as others in their social class but they are more likely to drive a BMW rather that a Ford and own a Gucci bag. It's a cultural thang.
     
  16. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    We both agree with the first sentence: the responsibility to contribute. Your second sentence is a rehash of neoliberal, classical liberal ideology...certainly not "socialist"....

    A collectivist community ensures everyone CAN contribute, not only within competitive free markets - which are about to be swept away as Biden cooperates with China and the world, to transition to a green economy.

    China is an example of "authoritarian capitalist" ...and doing very well, as the US body politic implodes. Whereas Bernie is a democratic socialist - last time I looked he doesn't have plans for the US to do away with elections.

    As always you are changing plain english to suit your libertarian 'sovereignty of the individual' mantra. Guess what; rule of law is required to avoid anarchy.

    In any case, free market capitalism has reached it use-by date: the world will now have to cooperate via a planned exit from the fossil industry.


    More obsolete Libertarian ideology. Guess what: pandemic control, sustainable development in ALL nations to deal with refugees fleeing poverty and war - and climate change - involves the GLOBAL community.

    And you call yourself a "socialist" and a "collectivist"!

    But we can't "all look after our own communities" in a self-interested manner, given the modern global supply chain, and expect to deal the global problems outlined above.

    China's government has c.90% approval rating among its own people (google it), whereas our adversarial, two-party rabbles aka democracy - by definition - only ever have c 50% support.

    You must be talking to someone else. I want a Job Guarantee in which everyone is obliged to contribute to the nation's prosperity and amenity, with above poverty reward (at a minimum). See MMT. I'm a socialist, like Bernie, open to democracy....IF the government is not forced to fund its social programs, ultimately through private banksters, as at present.

    Otherwise we can all expect the see China sail past the US within the decade.

    The black-white 'gap' in Australia is currently measured by a difference in lifespan of 20 years, with incarceration rates 5 times that of whites, unemployment c 50%. Poverty rates almost double.

    No cultural causes in those statistics?

    Solution: a JG for every aboriginal person of working age, as well as for every working age person; your free market capitalism cannot achieve it, so you choose to blame the victims, and assuage your guilt by instituting a poverty industry to look after the wreckage of people forced to survive on "sit-down" money.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  17. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I can't make sense of that graph. I don't understand how 16% of the US population can be black drug users when black people are only 13% of the population.

    For what crime/s?

    That's because black people have more interactions with the police than white people.

    Yes, we all know the examples like Floyd and Garner, but why do you only know black people who have been killed by the police? Why don't you know any white people ? You can't even name ONE white person who has been killed by police! Yet you know then names of MANY black people! Why is that do you think?

    Interesting. Although, this doesn't mean that there are individual states which treat black people and white people differently. Certain states could give harsher sentences to both blacks and whites, but possibly there are more blacks which are sentenced in that state. Compared to certain other states which could give LESS harsh sentences to both blacks and whites, but there are more whites which are sentenced in that state. I would want to see state specific stats, rather than the country as a whole, but you've certainly given me something to think about. Thanks.

    What if whites are better behaved in prison? This would mean that they get less disciplinary sanctions and also get on parole earlier than black people.

    So then "American flag with a blue stripe in it" was entirely meaningless! Were you drunk or something?
     
  18. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    "maybe" it's... 16% of the black population uses drugs vs about 18.5% of the white population.
    So it's white people who punch above their weight.

    We're still talking about my source.

    If so, than that's what institutionalized racism is about in the police.
    Just hunt down black people for crimes and ignore white people doing the same thing, even when the white people do the same criminal thing more.
    To than marvel that you indeed end up getting more black people in jail, and incorrectly claim it's because they are more criminal.
    Congrats.

    It's not relevant, since it's a fact that the police kill more unarmed black people compared to the % of the ethnic compensation of the US / above their weight.


    You got a point somewhere. Than again, it's such an easy thing to come up with, that you would be able to find a conclusion that this is part of it. These data have been analyzed over and over for decades. It's nothing new. And they all end up having no explanation other than it must be racism. The federal government is in it too. They got a clue why more than half of the sentences are longer for black people under the same circumstances. The DA simply asks to get longer sentences by their decision of using mandatory minimum sentences against black people 65% more vs white... and so it happens on average.

    https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles

    And that's the thing of institutionalized racism. It's not just 1 person who does it. It's all of it in the proces of crime, arrest, sentence, to released from jail.

    What if you can't prove that, while there is prove that cops, DA's and judges treat black people harsher? Can't we connect dots all the sudden?

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...-white-supremacists-charlottesvill/580694001/
     
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  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Poverty has NOTHING to do with crime. If it did, every one of the vast majority of humanity who live way below the American poverty line, would be a damned criminal. Since the vast majority of that vast majority are NOT criminals, your argument is too pathetic to even be called comedy.

    Crime is a CHOICE, pure and simple.
     
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  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) We have a responsibility to SUPPORT our family/village, just as every member of that family/village has a responsibility to earn that support. The very essence of the collectivism successfully practiced by humanity since the cave, worldwide. You don't work, you don't eat. The great thing about essential collectivism in a First World democracy, is that you can opt to go it alone if you're too fancy and special. You get a choice, you see - unlike your totalitarian model. And no, a collective doesn't "ensure everyone can contribute", if by that you mean caters to preferences in any way. A collective cannot resource preferences, no matter the size of the collective. It's a mutually exclusive proposition.

    2) I agree with job obligations, but only when they're realistic. See above. Preferences (location and nature of work etc) cannot be supported, ever. It's completely unfeasible. Doesn't even exist in Star Trek. If the applicant doesn't like the location or nature of the job offered, they get to choose independence and forfeit any kind of welfare or job guarantee. Remember the Commie Creed? You don't work, you don't eat.

    3) BS. I personally have about 8 non-white relatives in their 80's, and a few more in their 90's. Health is a function of how you take care of yourself in life, not your skin tone. None of them smoke or drink, none are overweight, and they all exercise and eat good healthy meals with plenty of fresh fruit and veg, and not too much sodium, sugar, meat or dairy. These are ALL choices.
     
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  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've heard that before, that white people are involved in drugs more. And yet, from your source we see that black people are arrested more for drug related crime. Couldn't this be because there is more police presence in particular black communities because of the overall higher level of crime; therefore, there is a higher probability that a black person is caught selling or possessing drugs?

    Maybe I'm missing something, but your source makes no mention of "250%."

    Why can't black people have more interactions with the police than white people BECAUSE they are involved in more crime? Do you even acknowledge that black people commit more crime? If you can't even acknowledge that, then there's no point in continuing this discussion.

    Yes but you can't even name ONE white person who has been killed by police! Yet you know the names of MANY black people! Why is that do you think?

    The government reports say that it must be racism?

    I am certainly open to the idea of judicial racism, certainly more than police racism. The VERY general term institutional racism seems way too broad given the limited evidence that we have.

    Anything which proves that cops, DA's and judges treat black people harsher, doesn't mean that the reason for the harsher treatment is racism. And while you would say that you have proof that cops, DA's and judges treat black people harsher, do you have proof that the prison system treats black people harsher? If not, then you should be open to the idea that white people get less disciplinary sanctions and also get on parole earlier than black people, because they are better behaved while in prison.

    Was this flag seen at the Capitol riot?
     
  22. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You need to prove it or lose it. It's FAR more plausible that they just apply racist profiling. They used to deliberately racist profile people like LESS than 10 years ago, and found it totally fine.

    It's in the graph.
    16% of the black population uses drugs -> about 1.1% gets arrested -> 0.3% gets incarcerated statewide
    18.5% of the whites uses drugs -> 0.4% gets arrested -> make it 0.05 gets gets incarcerated statewide

    If things were proportionate, than 1.1/16*18.5= 1.3% should have been arrested. The difference between 1.3 and 0.4 actually 318%
    0.3/16x18.5 = 0,35. That difference is 693%.

    Maybe white people have less judges like they have less policing, right?


    Because I already proved that white people do more drug related crime.
    Your idea that than black people MUST be doing a heck of a lot of other crimes, is based on WHAT... their genes?

    Because it's irrelevant. The data says black people are over represented in being killed by cops while they are unarmed.

    Same situation, different color.... that leads to the conclusion that it's indeed racism.

    You got zero to rebuke anything. You can only wonder if the research was done right, as if your amateur opinion matters. It does not.
    And the evidence is not limited. it's not just a thing of drugs and ethnicities. Driving while black is a thing that's also true.
    They analyzed 100 million traffic stops last year... and the conclusion there is just all about racist behavior by the cops.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1

    And I "doubt it" that cops switch off their racist behavior if it's not a trafic stop.

    It is racism when the circumstances are the same. And I proved that they are when they are brought in front of a judge.
    And analyzing 100 million traffic stops leads to the conclusion that racism by cops is just there.
    Data of unarmed black and armed black being more likely to be killed.. that points to racism.

    You're just unwilling to accept how it is.

    You have nothing to rebuke. You just got questions.

     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  23. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    To paraphrase you -the vast majority of those in poverty would be criminals according to me- Is hyperbolic nonsense. I never stated anything near that and your superficial understanding reminds me of a saying: "Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know."-Michel de Montaigne
     
  24. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    But YOU can't support your village in the modern world; you are harking back to the days when every village had its own smithy who could keep his own village's carts in operating condition.

    We are now living in a global 'village'.

    Today government is required to implement the right and the responsibility of individuals to contribute, across the entire nation.

    In a sentence, that's why your entire contribution on this board is a sham based on obsolete classical liberalism.

    Gosh, you are now appealing to the stone age economy......

    Notice how you refer to the small individual group living in the cave as the "collective", which worked when the economy consisted of no more than gathering food.

    But today's economy is 'something else' ....more complex......in case you hadn't noticed. Your local "collective" is now a tiny part, likely specialized (whether manual or intellectual labour), of all citizens' total effort in the nation's development.

    I presume you mean "if you're NOT too fancy".

    In any case, today's economy - whether viewed from the local, state, national or international perspective, is much too interdependent for you to "opt out", without making use of some of the features of the modern economy.eg provision of power (whether on or off grid), transport, house building materials, etc.

    Addressed above, you can't opt out of the modern economy, you are dependent on it in some manner.

    OK so government is not a "collective" but your individual units are.....

    Nevertheless, only government CAN implement the right and responsibility to contribute in the nation's development......and no, I don't mean catering to "preferences": everyone HAS to work (just as in the hunter gatherer days when the reward for work WAS food).

    A collective certainly CAN preference resource use, whereas your "resource preferences" is irrelevant to the mutual obligation between individual and society.

    Addressed above. The obligation to work is as certain as the right to work, whereas your consideration of what is a 'realistic obligation' is merely YOUR opinion, based on the erroneous classical economic theory of "scarcity in the face of unlimited wants".

    [Hence the whole price setting via supply and demand in free markets, in classical economics. It's obsolete because in the modern economy, there is neither 'scarcity' nor 'unlimited wants'; eg, housing, food, internet....and work.....are sufficient to satisfy needs, available for all].


    Mutual obligation between the individual and society must - and can only be implemented by government. The economy is too complex nowadays for individuals to 'go it alone'.

    Citizens are not "applicants", they are mutually dependent members of a community.

    No they don't, they need some of the products of the nation even if living in a cave.

    You are confused. A Job Guarantee eliminates welfare, and regardless, people don't get to choose "independence" from the economy. BTW, we both agree with that bit of the "Commie Creed".....

    Correct...BUT please explain WHY the aboriginal life span ON AVERAGE is 20 years less than the non-aboriginal population.

    eg WHY are some aboriginals STILL sitting on beaches in Broome, surrounded by broken plonk bottles, drinking themselves to death?

    In fact this literally IS an ongoing genocide, for which the entire Australian nation is responsible; because aboriginals did not behave in this self-destructive manner before the invasion in 1788.

    (As opposed to Pompeo's fake charge of genocide against the Chinese government which is raising a backward Islamic culture (with the usual fundamentalist Islamic terrorist cells) in Xinjiang out of illiteracy and poverty).

    Correct, and very important; .....unfortunately ignored by evil capitalists who want to profit by pushing their garbage products via despicable junk advertising onto unwary consumers.

    Particularly relevant to aboriginal health: evil capitalists always come out in force to defeat community attempts to close local grog shops and limit availability of booze....partly because YOU reject the idea of a Job Guarantee, because if people are going to come off the booze, they will need structured employment: another example of your culpability in the ongoing genocide, by insisting a government JG amounts to some sort of fake "resource preferencing"..
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
  25. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    That post deserves a compulsory re-education session, IMO.

    A quick google search yields:

    "Poverty can lead to high levels of stress that in turn may lead individuals to commit theft, robbery, or other violent acts. ...However, many other factors influence crime and are correlated with poverty as well".

    and:

    Poverty and Crime (futurelearn.com)

    "Crime data across different time and places consistently show that crime is heavily concentrated in economically disadvantaged cities and neighborhoods. Over the years, researchers spent tremendous efforts on understanding the causal link between poverty and crime and whether government anti-poverty programs can help reduce crime".

    But of course, since welfare (poverty-level 'sit-down' money) has generally proved to be a failure, you think you can make your ridiculous statement that "crime is a choice".

    As to your second sentence positing low crime rates amidst 3rd world poverty:

    Does Inequality Cause Crime? - The Atlantic

    "There’s a good amount of research from all over the world that suggests that places with pronounced income inequality are more likely to have high rates of violent crime, a finding that makes intuitive sense: the wider the socioeconomic gap, per Becker's 1968 model, the more gains potential criminals perceive. (Not to mention, the more frustrated poorer criminals will be with society.)"

    So, your proposition fails on numerous counts.
     

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