If Jesus died for my sins

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Jolly Penguin, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Deut 13 - 12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock

    So you see - the poster was not lying - YHWH - commands that Children and Babies be killed for the sins of the parents.

    You should read the Bible - then you will not make such silly mistakes.
     
  2. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    You should learn to make a coherent argument so people will know what you are talking about.

    Give me that again from beginning to end so we will all know what you think you are saying.
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you having a problem understanding Mate -

    God commanding the killing of babies for the sins of their parents - did you not read the passage ?
     
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  4. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    That had nothing to do with the conversation I was having with the other poster, mate.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's exactly what he was talking about -- in the post below
    After which you responded "Liar Liar"

    and is answer to your other question is correct as well - that involving the Golden rule -- which I addressed and you ignored that as well .. so it runs out that it is you who wants nothing to do with the conversation that you were having .. and projecting your flaws onto others.

    Why do you run from your own conversation - can you not handle the consequences of your Perspective ? .. that all you can do when viewing those consequences in the mirror .. is cry "Liar Liar" .. bits of foam venom dribbling out of your mouth ..

    Down a dark path you have gone.
     
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  6. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    I am not running from anything, I am ignoring your nonsensical lies. You took one sentence out of a post, excused that lie, then ignored the rest of his lies. You and the rest of the God hating trolls here have reached a new low.

    Your whole M.O. has nothing to do with God, you hate US, you don't even believe in God, you just come here to peddle your hateful screed for some psychotic reason. Don't expect me to honor that, and don't preach to me about the Golden Rule after you have shattered it with your dishonesty.

    Goodbye, troll.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You projection of your failings onto others - false accusations, nonsensical lies, name calling - because you can not handle the topic.

    I did not take one sentence out of the Post - I cited the whole post - which you claimed was all lies.. but have yet to show any lie.. from any sentence in that post. So it is you who is the facilitator of falsehood - not I.

    The post was as follows ..
    To which you responded "Lies - all Lies" but have yet to come up with a lie - because you can not deal with the Truth .. A truth which caused you to cry "Liar Liar" - That the Depiction of YHWH in the OT - is one of a xenophobic genocidal flip flopping God - with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics.

    The rest of your post was a full on foaming at the mouth attempt to demonize the messenger - because you can not bear to look at the message .. as your fairly tale bubble would surely pop .. Such as is the case of those who's house is built on sand - where if one small pillar is taken out .. the whole structure collapses.

    You run from the playground - name calling - with hands covering ears - eyes - mouth - or any other orifice that might let the bad news in - followed by sticking head deep in the sandbox of denial - in a desperate attempt to bury brain.

    :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:
     
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  8. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    And yet you question the judgment of the same God who gave life to one such as you?
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did no such thing - .. I may at some point - but have not yet done so. Stop making things up.

    We first have to get past the denial stage - and actually admin that YHWH is depicted as stated.

    Do you admit that YHWH is depicted as such ?
     
  10. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    If you can't see the lies you are either blind or stupid - or both. If you are going to persist in accusing me of projection then you don't have anything else to say - I've got you. Your misunderstanding of God, theology, and the OT is not even as good your average Sunday schooler and you and your troll friends cover your fear with boast and insults while you keep repeating the same old deck.

    So quit beating that dead horse.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What Lies --- you keep claiming lies lies lies.. but give nothing to back up your claim.

    That YHWH is depicted as a xenophobic flip flopping genocidal God with the most petty of human characteristics is a simple fact.

    Stop projecting your willful blindness onto others.
     
  12. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    If you can't see the lies it's because you don't know the truth, that's what I am trying to tell you. The Bible wasn't written in English. What good would explaining the truth from the lie when you don't know one from the other.

    Stop projecting your arrogance on me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the OT - YHWH is depicted as a xenophobic , genocidal, irrational, illogical - a flip flopping God with the most petty and nasty of human Characteristics.

    This is a simple fact - not someone trying to project anything on you - although you seem to feel attacked by this information.

    The Posters claim is True - Your claim that he was "Lying" - is false.

    It is self deception - or outright deception to maintain your false accusation.
     
  14. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    In much the same way you have a problem with simple concepts, I have a hard time understanding why atheists are so afraid of the God that doesn't exist. Or is it just that you can't live knowing that there is someone who doesn't agree with you, to the point where you post rabid rants with spittle flying out of your mouth demanding answers from me that you know damn well you are not going to accept.

    And I don't give a damn what you say, the other poster does lie. And so do you.
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are the only one here running from simple concepts - responding with only name calling and fallacy - desperately trying to demonize the messenger, because you can't handle the simple Truth that YHWH of the OT is depicted as not a very nice fellow - and that is putting it mildly.

    Where did you get the idea that I was an Atheist ? not that it would make a difference to my argument .. I am most certainly not an atheist.

    I just do not believe in the depiction of God that you believe. - Commanding the killing of babies for the sins of their parents kind of rings off as justification of Child sacrifice to me. Nasty stuff either way.

    I did not say that your position was wrong - but - it seems you can not come to grips with what your position even is.. desperate you are to avoid your own position - name calling as you run away - demonize the messenger in any way possible.

    Not an argument for much as I see it.
     
  16. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Editorialization aside, the scripture is as it is and would appear rather abrupt in its nature three thousand years after the fact, far from the context of the time and place. Still, who is to say what God can and cannot do. It's like asking, Where does Chuck Norris sit? Some here seem to suggest that the God of Judaism, Jesus Christ and Christianity are all the work of the devil. Which begs the question, what then is the work of God, or that perhaps there actually is no God. Were that so, then the animus exhibited towards the character of God and Christ is nearer to the over emotional stimulation from viewing a stage play, movie or TV series. It is much ado about nothing. All of that aside, to question the concept or motives of a perfect God, is a fools errand. It is akin, for the want of its fruit, to yank up the tree to see how the roots are doing. One must abide. A step in the right direction does not a home coming parade make. And you don't have to see the end to know that it exists or that it is forever. What is more the divider, the call to belief from unbelief, or the call to unbelief from belief? There is no gift or promise to unbelief but hopelessness and death, made palatable in the interim with a life shorn of responsibility and struggle for the eternal welfare of ones own soul and spirit, seeking repose in temporal indulgence. In belief is the gift and promise of eternal life or this life more fully in the yonder via the sacrifices we make and treasures stored apart. His charity is our sustenance in the interim. This probably sounds hokey, religious and pious. But to me it follows reason.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  17. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    The passage in question gets dragged out to accuse God all of the time, but it's like I told the poster earlier in the thread, if you want to see the God of mercy look in the Psalms. The one who calls himself "gifted one" apparently hasn't read them, he's just cherrypicking atheist memes and trolling with them.

    And I know that, so I am not going to fall for his game, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's just trolling.
     
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  18. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, I know exactly what my position is. And if I "demonize" you and some of the others it's for everything you've ever said, not just for what you've said today.
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    None of the above much addresses the previous discussion - which is the depiction of YHWH in the OT - and Yes - YHWH can do what ever he wants .. Or ?? Can he.

    The answer to this question depends ones perspective of who the "Most High" is and the relationship of YHWH to the most high.

    You likely want to claim that YHWH "IS" the most high - and who am I to disagree - as I don't know anymore than you if this is the case.

    The question I want to know is what did the folks who wrote the story of YHWH believe .. and what was their perspective? - and if one goes down that path - we find that these folks believed that "EL" was the most high - The God of Abraham - Top Gun of the Sumerian Pantheon - God of Creation - 'The Father" - God who dwells in the Mountain - and so on

    According to the beliefs at the time - and everyone in the near East held this belief - all believed El was the Most High in the time of Abraham- including Abraham and Kin...

    According this religious belief ... El had 70 sons .. one of them was YHWH.

    conversely - we learn from the Bible that Satan is also a Son of God - but this Son does not stray outside of God's will

    So at least this Son God has some limits - why not the Son of God YHWH ?

    .
     
  20. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Fwiw, I don't understand most of the Bible myself. But I don't let that complicate what I know, which is that God lives. I also know that everyone has a conscience. And if we stay close to it, it is like a benchmark to know whether or not this or that thing is in alignment with it. Along with the power of choice we gather and build understanding along the course. If one strays too far from conscience and the understanding which we have built, then one gets caught up in the sophistries of this life, and cast about by the winds of various doctrines and interpretations, thus losing sight of what is right, good and true. And so I stay close to conscience and what I know is true. I consider our consciences and the power of choice to be gifts from God, which btw are also testimonies of his existence by virtue of theirs. It is too crucial and fixed to be evolutionary in nature. I reason by this that God is gracious for having enabled us to see good from bad, extending as well a large measure of liberty vested in the power of choice to us. In so doing, it establishes honor and the pivot to judgment. It is to place trust in us or entrust us with our own futures. It is kindly in spirit and intent. Anyway it is too complicated to unfold further. I just see his smile in the matter. Suffice it to say that God has won my heart. So whatever discrepancies or puzzles there are in the Bible, are irrelevant to me.
     
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  21. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    These words in bold - "YHWH is depicted as a xenophobic , genocidal, irrational, illogical - a flip flopping God with the most petty and nasty of human Characteristics" - are NOT in the Bible, and before you start to argue, notice that these are your own words: "YHWH is depicted". Those are YOUR words, not the words of the Bible, so you lie.

    The Canaanites were an evil people, much like Isis or the Democrat party of today, worthy of condemnation for their practices, among other things,child sacrifice.
     
  22. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego Active Member Past Donor

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    Jolly Penguin:

    Scripture says there is no forgiveness for DELIBERATE sin.

    "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left," (Hebrews 10:26 -- New International Version (NIV) )


    Alter2Ego
     
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  23. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Hold on now, my Christian friends tell me that they often sin. The catholic ones tell me they go to confession to confess their sins. They aren't perfect and they continued to sin even after they read the bible and "received the knowledge" as this verse puts it. So... they are all damned and can't be saved?
     
  24. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Whether in vanity or truth, perhaps they are laboring to become converted. And so, have not reached the point of illumination, true repentance and actual forgiveness. So they are not really sinning the unpardonable sin because they have not reached that threshold that to sin more would then violate a sacred trust. Perhaps Biblical records contain enough truth to cause people to simulate religious function without the actual authority. And so, miss the mark. Sort of like an act or stage play which the actors and audience want so much to be real.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  25. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Whether in vanity or truth, perhaps they are laboring to become converted. And so, have not reached the point of illumination, true repentance, and actual forgiveness. So they are not really sinning the unpardonable sin because they have not reached that threshold that to sin more would then violate a sacred trust. Perhaps Biblical records contain enough truth to cause people to simulate religious function without the actual authority or understanding. And so, miss the mark. Sort of like an act or stage play which the actors and audience want so much to be real. And while they often come near the truth, who can touch the realm of the divine where our eternities are in the balance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021

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