Proud Deplorable Patriot

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Esdraelon, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. Esdraelon

    Esdraelon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hello all.
    I'm Esdraelon and I'm new here. I'm pretty sure I've already stepped on a few toes without really intending to. Politics is a serious topic for me these days and I don't pretend I don't have strong opinions. That said, I also don't respond to anyone with the intention of flaming them.
    I'm 60 and live in the Southeastern U.S. I voted for Trump the first time because Ted Cruz didn't win the nomination and HRC was just too foul to imagine in power. I voted Trump the second time because I realized what jeopardy the nation was in from those in DC who'd made it clear they'd do ANYTHING to remove Trump. Also, because in my lifetime, he's the only one who actually worked to keep his word.
    His legacy, even if he never appears in public again, is one of exposing both the Democrat AND Republican Parties and 99% of mainstream media as a kind of anti-traditional American propagandists.
    If the media continue their efforts to demonize Americans whose only fault is voting for Trump then I think real trouble is in our future. I hope we avoid it but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I voted trump because all the occult organizations that run the world hate him. Then I voted for him again because they hated him even more. So they stole the election, and now our government is illegitimate.

    Oh, and welcome! XD
     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Welcome to the forum......
    you may enjoy this discussion that I got going a while ago.....

    I myself am downright optimistic after what I feel was really accomplished in the M. E. alone since 2017!

    After the Abraham Peace Accord turn deserts green...

     
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  4. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    Welcome!
     
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  5. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump deserved to be removed and should have been, but alas! the right-wing propaganda machine is mighty now and has swept up millions of unwitting patriots in increasingly insane fantasies, of which you will find ample representation at this forum.

    Welcome and have fun!
     
  6. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Welcome.(belated)
     
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  7. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    You are just so sweet.
     
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  8. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don’t bite your tongue!
     
  9. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    If you're indoctrinated enough to believe the election was stolen from trump you would believe anything he tells you.
     
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  10. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of what he says is inconsequential. Which is fortunate, because he's terribly uninformed. Or, really, misinformed.
     
  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    And of course he is wearing glasses in his photo.

    Welcome to the forum.
     
  12. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    Most of what he says is NOT inconsequential. It has cost lives, turmoil and millions of dollars from trumpers who are being duped by his "inconsequential" lies.
     
  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    'cost lives'... people were always going to die from the flu. Blaming Trump or anyone for not protecting people from themselves is just another political game. Get back to me if Trump personally ordered the infected to be stored in nursing homes or when we can prove the vaccines hes pushing are dangerous.

    'Turmoil' similarly is going to happen no matter what. Far more are going to suffer from economic collapse than ever would've suffered from the flu. And that will be partially Trumps fault, but only because he went along too much with big pharma, the WHO and other corrupt international authoritarians looking for any excuse to tear the system down so they can huild it anew under their total control. Trump's part in that will be noteworthy, but will pale in comparison to Biden's. Just not until it all transitions from 'news' to history.

    Govt wastes millions of dollars every single day. I had hoped we could reduce it under Trump, but some things are just innevitable I guess. Until we stop giving govt so much money to waste, its gonna keep happening.
     
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  14. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Reality check:

    [link]
    Government has always picked winners and losers - The Washington Post

    "With the American Rescue Plan, the Biden administration has not only witnessed the passage of the most sweeping federal relief effort in recent history, but also advanced an argument about the role of public policy as a force for good in our economy. Polling shows that the legislation is broadly popular, but critics on the right and among centrist Democrats are sounding familiar alarms about “activist” government, warning that overreach will stifle economic activity and distort natural market processes, thus hindering growth. Pundits and experts echo these warnings and insist government should limit itself to protecting unfettered — or free — markets.

    But such arguments erase a fundamental reality: Throughout American history, public power has been a precondition of our markets, essential to their design and operations. Acts of governance and the exercise of public authority have always structured growth — and shaped the allocation of its rewards. More simply put, public power made our markets and regularly picks winners and losers. In fact, many of the goals being pursued by the Biden administration and promoted by the left aim to redress inequities created in no small part by past government action — government action that defenders of the status quo and critics of redistributive efforts would rather remain invisible."
     
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  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How does that relate to my post? Are you trying to say the govt isnt wasting any money?
     
  16. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    FYI, the current system that claims YOUR money is required to develop the nation is THE problem. Fact: the sovereign currency-issuing government doesn't need your money, and further more, unlike you and I, they can never run out of money; what they ARE limited by is the nation's available resources and productive capacity.

    So "government wasting money" is moot.

    Interesting to see Biden today invoking China as an example of a nation getting on with the job of developing its digital and physical infrastructure, not arguing among themselves over who should pay for it.
     
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  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    omg... ok fine, the govt is wasting our 'nation's available resources and productive capacity'... happy now, Mr Technical? The CCP is perhaps the only govt that wastes more of its 'available resources and productive capacity'
    than ours. We need to be using them as a benchmark to run away from, not toward.
     
  18. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Er... in the last decade, China has poured more cement than the US in the entire 20th century (google it) , AND built the largest HS rail network in the world, AND raised more people out of poverty than any nation in history.

    [​IMG]

    Meanwhile Trump in 4 years did not repair ONE bridge, the US has 3rd world infrastructure, and poverty remains entrenched, as he himself said (re inner-city ghettos in the US) : "you are living in poverty, your neighborhoods are like war zones, your schools and hospitals are broken..."

    Needless to say, the sole attempt at building a high speed rail between LA and SF ended in ignominious failure, owing to arguments about 'who is going to pay for it'....

    You need to rethink your understanding resource development, obviously.

    At least Biden WANTS to get on with the job; whether he will be able to or not depends on how much sway your retarded view of government has in Congress.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My understanding of resource developement includes a valuation on democratic consent, private property, rule of law and human rights. Sure, you can pour a lot of concrete with a nation of slaves whose land and labor you can gobble up on a whim, but that doesn't mean its 'efficient.' Not unless you view humans as purely a resource to be used and discarded (like China does).

    Perhaps you are unaware of what exactly the chinese people are deprived of in exchange for their new trains and luxurious coffin apartments. Heres a look: https://www.echo-wall.eu/state-mind/efficient-china#:~:text=Efficient China One of the most persistent myths,least to the rights and protection of citizens.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  20. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. I voted for Trump both times because I agreed with him on policy. I didn't like his personal behavior and various faults, but I agreed with him on policy.
     
  21. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Just as I expected, your linked article turns out to be written by a classical liberal, Friedman neoliberal monetarist ideologue.

    Re his first point, namely: where has all that Chinese money come from, and what are the possible implications of Chinese public debt for the stability of the Chinese economy.

    Fact: the Chinese govt cannot 'run out' of Yuan. The stability of China's economy will depend on the wisdom guiding the nation's resource development, cf with development via private sector profit driven (by individual greed) "invisible hand, blind, dumb "free markets".

    Both he and you understand nothing of this. Hence Trump couldn't repair a bridge; and Texas couldn't connect to the US grid etc etc. market failure everywhere, courtesy of "free" (read: driven by greedy self-interested individuals) markets.

    And as to his 2nd point about "political freedom": while the US is increasingly torn by political hyper-partisanship, Chinese people are increasingly satisfied with their government. (Harvard Research finds satisfaction levels >90%; google it).

    In contrast to the neoliberal toad you point to, Ellen Brown has a real understanding of what is happening in China:
    (link)
    ellen brown the american dream is alive and well i china - Bing

    Unlike your article's author, Ellen is not shocked by "money printing" in the PBofC, nor by the CPC's subsidization of housing, food, healthcare, and transport costs for low wage workers.

    Meanwhile, this tweet shows what Warren Mosler has to say on Biden's urgently required GND (including infrastructure), and the controversy over its funding:

    https://t.co/QLVDUK2PcA?amp=1

    IOW, Yellen's mainstream economic orthodoxy is as much a problem for Biden and the nation as the Repubs in Congress.

    Edit: the above link is to the CNBC orthodoxy (re funding via taxation) which Mosler is attacking; his tweet itself says:

    "The 'headline left' ** continues to be the problem, not that I'm not extremely grateful Trump isn't President:"

    **
    meaning the mainstream left typified by Yellen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  22. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Warren Mosler: "The '(mainstream) left' continues to be the problem, not that I'm not extremely grateful Trump isn't President:"

    See post #21. You too are in need of re-education in macroeconomics. Warren Mosler would be a good start, and also Stephanie Kelton's best-seller "The Deficit Myth".
     
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  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    idgaf about money printing already. That train is already over the ledge, so I'm invested in things that inflation cant devalue. My concern is sacrificing humans and free will on the pillar of efficiency. The entire point of being efficient is to increase human prosperity. China sacrifices prosperity for efficiency to feed the state and its puppetmasters, so it defeats the purpose. We will too only after all the sane people in America are dead. So, hopefully never.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  24. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    "Democratic consent" ....by self-interested, competitive, greedy individuals....which we all are, by nature. See the problem? Your democracy (including mad SC rulings like 'citizens united' which allow unlimited vote-buying by wealthy interests, when NO-ONE should be able to influence election outcomes based on spending power)....your democracy has about a decade left before China becomes the largest economy in the world. Wake up.

    And I see you spouting the usual nonsense about inflation/devaluation. Fact: inflation is caused by generalized (macroeconomic) excess demand for resources, not by money printing per se.

    OK, go back to sleep. I'll wake you up soon, when China can tell you what to do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You see competition as a detriment, dont you? The only alternative to competition is the elimination of the individual... nothing is worth that.
     
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