What are your views on abortion?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Daggdag, Oct 19, 2020.

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Which best describes your view on abortion

  1. A woman has the right to choose to get an abortion with no limitations.

    41 vote(s)
    47.7%
  2. Abortion should be illegal after the first trimester

    16 vote(s)
    18.6%
  3. Abortion should be illegal except to preserve the health and life of the mother.

    24 vote(s)
    27.9%
  4. Abortion should be illegal in all circumstances.

    5 vote(s)
    5.8%
  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    How telling that you ignore the first two reply sections!
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    AWWW, so sad you don't have any points or facts...just a meaningless question repeated endlessly....pathetic that's all you have...

    But here's the proof you said you'd make exceptions for abortion in the case of rape which YOU claim you didn't say :):

    """"gfm7175 said:
    Nope. As far as life of the mother, rape, and incest are concerned, abort away!! I give you those instances.

    Now, let's focus on the other 99% of instances...""""


    So you approve of the killing of a living human who has committed no crime and has expressed no desire to die
     
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  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I think that they have natural rights, just not recognised by government, but like I said, they still have the same protection from being killed that people with rights have.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    I never said that either.... another of your "dreams" ?


    You start a lot of posts with "then you agree'....why is that? Do you need people to "agree" with you? Even to the point of claiming they said things they hadn't said...Why?


    Yup, it's "telling" that they weren't worth a reply as usual.

    How "telling" ( your favorite word that says nothing) that you couldn't answer my questions...
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  5. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    For the purpose of this discussion, there's no reason to address the "1% of all abortions" concerning very rare instances (such as life of the mother, rape, and incest). I don't wish to go down that rabbit hole. I wish to remain focused on the other 99% of all abortions concerning a human fetus that has a heartbeat.

    No, I am discussing a human fetus that has a heartbeat. I am not discussing tissue.

    Irrelevant.

    ... and I wish to stick with what medical science says about this, which is checking for a pulse.

    Irrelevant.

    ... you just approve of the choice to kill living humans (at a particular developmental stage, anyway) who have committed no crime and have not expressed any desire to die.

    Irrelevant.
     
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    In post # 1843 you do.

    Called the cops yet to report these murders???
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    """"gfm7175 said:
    Nope. As far as life of the mother, rape, and incest are concerned, abort away!! I give you those instances.

    Now, let's focus on the other 99% of instances...""""


    you just approve of the choice to kill living humans (at a particular developmental stage, anyway) who have committed no crime and have not expressed any desire to die
     
  8. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Do I approve of abortion?
    Yes.

    Is abortion killing the fetus?
    Yes.

    Is the fetus human?
    Not in the human sense of the word.

    Is the fetus living?
    Yes.

    Has it committed a crime or expressed desire to die?
    No, it lacks the capacity to act.

    Do I approve of the killing of a living human who has committed no crime and has expressed no desire to die?
    No.

    Now, could you please stop asking this same question over and over again?
     
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  9. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    It's the terminology that I wish to use.

    No, I am not. I have already agreed with several people on the definitions of those words... 'human' is being considered as "of the homo sapien species" and 'living' (with regard to humans) is being considered as "has a heartbeat". Do you have any issues with the above, about how to identify a human or how to identify whether or not a human is living?

    Irrelevant.

    No word games, just a simple straightforward question (I'll even add in a bonus question).

    Do you approve of the choice to kill a living human who has committed no crime and has not expressed any desire to die?

    Is the justification for your approval of the said killing to make another living human's life more convenient?
     
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    That poster HAS to ask the same question because that poster has nothing else...:)

    AND can't face the FACT that they approve of the killing of a living human who has committed no crime and has expressed no desire to die
     
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  11. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevancies and rabbit holes... I'll get to the foundation of my position on abortion, but it will first take fleshing out some terms with you to arrive there.

    Let's try to come to an agreement here... How do you suggest that we identify and define what a human is? My suggestion is by its species (homo sapien).

    How do you suggest that we identify and define what 'alive' is with specific regard to a human (as earlier defined)? My suggestion is to check for a pulse. For example, I can determine that someone is alive by pressing in a particular spot on their neck below their cheek bone and finding that they have a pulse (iow, a heartbeat). I just checked myself and indeed I do have a pulse.

    Can we agree upon these terms?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    """"gfm7175 said:
    Nope. As far as life of the mother, rape, and incest are concerned, abort away!! I give you those instances.

    Now, let's focus on the other 99% of instances...""""


    you just approved of the choice to kill living who have committed no crime and have not expressed any desire to die
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  13. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but that is only a very primitive and perceptual definition and it distorts the whole debate since the issue being discussed is not one of ecology.

    Yes, that is a garbage definition that only serves to direct the discussion off topic and into the corner where you want it to be so that you can point out that the fetus does deserve the same rights as me and you.

    A rational woman has her unwanted pregnancy terminated for the sake of convenience, yes. Do you have any problems with that?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  14. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Finally!

    My suggestion is when it is born.

    My suggestion is a physically and physiologically individuated person who holds volitional consciousness.

    How do you press your fingers below an embryo's cheek to check their pulse?

    Heeeell nooo.
     
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  15. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    gfm7175 said: a human fetus with a heartbeat is a living human

    How is a human fetus a "potential"? It ALREADY IS. It ALREADY EXISTS. It is actually there, in the womb. There is nothing "potential" about it.

    Do not conflate the potential for being birthed with the potential for existence. With regard to existence, there is no "potential" as it ALREADY EXISTS.

    It is of the human species and it has a heartbeat, right?

    Natural existence and development is not a crime, dude.

    It is not a human and it does not have a heartbeat?

    The reason for non-expression is irrelevant. All that is relevant is that it has not expressed any desire to die.

    SQUIRREL!!! SQUIRREL!!! No, let's stay focused on the discussion at hand.
     
  16. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    A fetus is an actualised fetus, but a potential human. A newborn is an actualised baby, but only a potential adult.

    That is not at all where the disagreement lies, Darwin. The disagreement concerns rights and it is irrational to give rights to a potential - A toddler is a potential 18 year old, should they have the right to vote, drive, join the army or consent to sex? Of course not and I doubt you think it should. The toddler exists, but that means nothing here. As I have said 200 times now; you are a potential corpse, can I bury you alive?

    I will never answer this question again.

    Exactly.

    ...

    Lmao.

    Now that would be great. However, I feel it won't be long until you ask that same, dumb question again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  17. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    GFM7175 said: You've already agreed with me (and the medical community) that a human with a heartbeat is "alive" / "living".
    GFM7175 said: Therefore, a fetus THAT HAS A HEARTBEAT is "alive" / "living", under that definition.
    GFM7175: This one is completely cut and dry, dude... A fetus that has a heartbeat IS "living".
    GFM7175 said: So what species IS the fetus, if it is "not yet human"?
    GFM7175 said: So the fetus IS human after all, eh?
    GFM7175 said: So you DO approve of the choice to kill a living human who has committed no crime and has not expressed any desire to die, eh?
    See the above red text and purple text. In the purple text, you agree to the definition of 'living human', as highlighted in red text in my question. You are approving of the choice to kill a living human, as defined in the red and purple text above, who has committed no crime and has not expressed any desire to die... Sick.

    GFM7175 said: If the fetus is not a human at that point, then of what species does it belong to before it spontaneously transforms into the human species?
    Does the fertilization of a human egg and a human sperm not always yield a human zygote?
     
  18. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Not all fertilised eggs are successfully implanted.
     
  19. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't expressing my personal views on those issues in that comment; I was merely making the point for us to set those specific instances aside since they are irrelevant to my question.
     
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sometimes (born) people (including babies in the crib) die from natural causes. That of course in no way means they do not have a right to life.

    Attempting to use that in your argument isn't really relying on the strongest logic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  21. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    That has never been my argument.
     
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  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then why did you make that statement?
     
  23. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean? Darwin here claimed all fertilised eggs result in pregnancy, I pointed out the fact that they don't.

    Maybe you quoted the wrong post?
     
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  24. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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  25. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    That's not my position. You're taking my quote out of context and applying it as if I was personally taking that position when I was really just saying to throw out the 1% of cases and focus on the other 99% of cases.

    You are continuing to be dishonest.
     

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