Army Combat Fitness Disaster: Units Refusing to Take Test, Medics Bailing

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    A great article about something that was absolutely predictable, but the Army went ahead and did it anyway.

    Army Combat Fitness Disaster: Units Refusing to Take Test, Medics Bailing

    The U.S. Army has a readiness problem the likes of which it has not seen since the draft, and one which threatens to undermine the entire institution. This problem is called the Army Combat Fitness Test. The ACFT was designed to improve the physical fitness levels of soldiers. Because it was so poorly planned, however, 84% of women failed it straightaway, and data is scarce as to whether things have improved. This is a big problem because failure of a graded physical fitness evaluation renders a soldier ineligible for promotion, locked out of specialized training that might otherwise improve a soldier’s acumen or skillset, and ultimately, risks seeing them kicked out of the Army entirely.

    Meanwhile, military medical staff—surgeons, nurses, dentists, optometrists, general physicians—are, sources tell me, eyeing ACFT standards skeptically and planning to exit the Army as soon as possible.


    It's not just medical staff; think of any technical field that has a large amount of women. If the PT test is going to end their career, they might as well take their training and run.

    This article is a gem so I would encourage you to read the whole thing, but I got a laugh out of this:

    In the same letter from the Sergeant Major of the Army, he practically begged units to get with the program—to jump on the team and come on in for the big win:

    “The refinements will be data driven and it’s critical we make training for, and taking the ACFT, one of our highest priorities.


    Not warfighting, not being mission capable, but making the ACFT work is now the number one job of the Army.

    That is so Army. If you want to know why the Army can't defeat a technologically inferior enemy in Afghanistan, and have lost ground to them, it's all there in the bureaucratic mindset of the Army and it's leadership.
     
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  2. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    it is time to test the Army with more formidable enemies like russia and china.
     
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  3. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Lil Mike

    It seems to me that someone in the Army bureaucracy just needs to apply some common sense. I'll bet I could solve this problem overnight.

    Have four fitness test difficulty standards. From highest to lowest ...

    1) Delta Force
    2) Ranger Battalion/Green Berets
    3) Males
    4) Females

    Common sense, problem solved.
     
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  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well if common sense ruled the roost, they probably would have stuck with the old PT test and simply added elements to it for combat arms. But my experience is that common sense doesn't have a seat at the General's table.
     
  5. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are both Army vets. Been there, right? I wouldn't trade my service for anything, but it does give one a peek at how that bureaucracy works, doesn't it?

    I'm rolling my eyes at how simple this problem is ... :roll:

    Seth :salute: :flagus:
     
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  6. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Your idea is good, but I don't know about Male/female breakdown.

    More like 1) Delta Force
    2) Ranger
    3) Non REMFs
    4) REMFs

    But I think I get the point. All military doesn't need to be combat physically fit for front line duty.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So its less calisthenics and more weightlifting now... why did they do that?
     
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  8. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think they should all be in shape and physically fit, but males and females should have different standards for the obvious reasons. To my thinking, it defies common sense when the overwhelming majority of females flunk a fitness test - a test that doesn't differentiate between men and women.
     
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  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But isn't (or, shouldn't be) the test meant to represent a minimum physical ability for the expected job? I mean, if a woman is going to be in the same situation as a man, the Army has an obligation to make sure that woman has been prepared just as well to overcome that situation as the man, right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  10. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thanks for the update on this particular ongoing DoD fiasco. It is a gem of an article. The author makes numerous points that as far as I'm concerned are basically irrefutable.

    I liked this one pretty well,

    Because while it would be nice if cooks, helicopter mechanics, paralegals, and linguists could, at a moment’s notice, graduate Ranger school, maybe—just maybe—retention with a basic level of physical fitness is more important than the ability to achieve the fetal position while hanging from a pull-up bar. The Army is losing medical doctors to this thing. I have profound respect for cav scouts, but I don’t want one performing surgery on me.

    Who was the commander in chief during this roll out?
     
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  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's always a love hate relationship with the Army. I wouldn't trade my service for anything, but boy are they seriously screwed up.
     
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  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    If you have evidence that this is a result of Presidential directive, feel free to provide that info. However if you want to learn more about this entire fiasco rather than just engaging in partisan sniping, check out these threads which have been covering this PT scandal for a while.

    Army Combat Fitness Test Fiasco! Slides Reveal 84% of Women Failing ACFT

    The ACFT is finally here
     
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  13. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm so glad I retired when I did. I know right before I got out, they were making the argument that we never have to run long distances anymore, and that they would rather have guys that "looked like football players rather than marathon runners". I didn't think this argument made sense. But I guess someone did.
     
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  14. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have evidence of a President disinterested and out of touch whom you and other such members as Seth have more or less consistently defended since I joined this place last year. A President who uncharacteristically lacks the skill to even pretend that the buck stops on his desk. The Honey badger. It doesn't have to be a directive initiated by the President to hold him to account, he had the authority to roll it back, just as he had the authority to follow through on his now prescient observation that the Ford class carrier was deeply flawed. Maybe if the fat ***** grabber in chief had spent a bit more time on the job and less time golfing and funneling funds into his businesses he might have effected an ability to actually make America great rather than just spool up the hyper partisan environment that Mitch initiated.

    This ridiculous acft is just another dod fiasco that at least displays such a blatantly inept and massively obvious failure that there is some hope it will be shelved rather quickly, in terms of dod quick.

    I do not of course actually blame this on Trump. I just can't pass up an opportunity to poke you for supporting the feckless f'r. As much as I share several of the right's values and objectives, at least to the extent that these values and objectives were classified as being on the right before Trump came along, I will never support a narcissistic spoiled elite rich kid like Trump acting on behalf of my ~45% or so leanings toward conservative positions.

    The dod and the treasure it steals from our nation is perhaps the greatest threat to our nation among all threats, including external threats. The failed acft is your only issue? The Ford class carrier and F35 debacles haven't made your list? The all volunteer force structure isn't among your complaints?
     
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  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    This is why I voted no on the thread which asked if there should be a special TDS section of the forum, because I felt that TDS sufferers wouldn't be able to stop themselves from bringing up Trump in every single thread, no matter how far removed from Trump the thread's subject matter was.

    Your comment is a good example of that.
     
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  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I can't remember, but when I was in and likely still today, female already have a different fitness requirement test.
     
  17. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That’s my recollection too.
     
  18. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your reply is as well. Missed the other points and questions in my post it appears you did.
     
  19. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They did, until this new fitness test was introduced. I'm not sure all the details of it. They were starting to implement it just as I was retiring 3 years ago.
     
  20. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    And this is emblematic of how Obama decimated the war fighting prowess of the US Army, and frankly all of the other services as well, when he went full dogma purist and purged the services of folks actually capable of war fighting in favor of his ideological sycophants. Of course Biden is just continuing this legacy, and of course, just making a laughing stock of our soldiers, sailors/marines, and airmen.

    And all the while, China grows stronger and laughs at what they correctly perceive as social engineering winning over war fighting in the US.
     
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  21. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I will point out that when there are only promotions based on performance metrics, and the APFT is used, underperformance is ignored and promotions are still based on a preference model. This isn't equitable, it's charitable at best.
     
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well next time try to stay on the thread topic.
     
  23. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    TDS ruined your ability to read the full content of the post did it?
     
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  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I just realized you have no interest in this topic, it's only about Trump for you.
     
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  25. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    You have to sit down to chew gum, eh?
     
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