What good is religion?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by gabmux, May 27, 2021.

  1. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    I thought that you were attributing the loss of memory to the Father Complex and thought a link appropriate.

    Regards
    DL
     
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not sure how you thought that, did you think Alzheimer's was caused by that? I think it's caused by too many carbs

    but that was not the point, the point is, if you can lose your memory in this lifetime by brain damage, that means memories are stored in the brain, not in a soul
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  3. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    I see two purposes. The first purpose would be to point the way towards having a transcendental experience or to achieve a transcendental state of consciousness.

    The second purpose would be to provide a counterpoint to brainwashing by the government/media complex and education system. At a minimum to keep big government from becoming a religion.
     
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  4. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    I do not know how you define soul.

    I think both soul and brain products, thoughts, are synonymous in a world without the supernatural.

    I encapsulate it all into, consciousness, which is the important thing to maintain be we alive or dead.

    Ego could also be used as that denotes our full essence, perhaps.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    doesn't matter how it's defined, life force, soul, whatever you are after you die

    the point is, if you can lose your memories while you're alive, what make you think you keep them after you die?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  6. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Sages and mystics, drug experimenters and individuals, --- by the score, --- have claimed such an experience, --- and what good has it done us?

    Not much that I can see.

    Any true otherworldly contact would need telepathy. Unless that tool can be used, we are stuck in this reality. Noetic science has barely proven it exists.

    Modernization is killing religions and that is helping us and with atheist churches popping up, who knows what the Mystery Schools will learn and uncover.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    I do not recall saying I did.

    I have yet to die and find out what I remember, or even if I have something to remember with.

    I did mention the mystery part above somewhere. Right?

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Too late, and as it should be.

    Whatever it is you believe and are, you are protected by your state.

    Your counterpoint mainstream religions are fascist by nature and preach for homophobia and misogyny and that a genocidal god is somehow a good god.

    Do you think those ideological point to be better than whatever government you think you live under?

    If you do, have I got a Swastika for you.

    Heil St. Hitler and his god, Yahweh.

    Stay tuned for Armageddon for Jesus and his genocide of man.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  9. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    There ya go get rid of religion and you can take your conscience and stick it.
    Stalinist 'kill em all let G/god sort em out' marxism
    Admission the state is a religion, finally
    Heil St Stalin, Hmm I dont recall yahweh genociding anyone, care to cite it for us?
    What he said ^^^

    America exists because the religion of the british dissidents disagreed with the guv religion.

    Of course the brits stick their noses in medaling and pedaling the bullshit America should get rid of religion, to convince us their system is better when in fact the ATHEIST BRITS started WW2, not the evil yahweh orevil hitler as the brits would have you believe.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  10. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    My personal opinion is that the benefits of the transcendental experience are only achieved by those that have such an experience -- not society. There are various claims made of the benefits. But I have not had a transcendental experience myself. So I won't make any claims.
     
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  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would like to think that I have had benefits from reading hundreds of different near death experience accounts that is up there with actually having had one myself.......
    but I could be wrong????

    Even listening to them can be profoundly beneficial to many of us......


     
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  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    general "you", not you

    but have you ever known anyone that lost their memory while they are alive

    you don't have to die to have witnessed that, sadly it's very common
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  13. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Religious freedom protects people's right to live, speak, and act according to their beliefs peacefully and publicly. It protects their ability to be themselves at work, in class, and at social activities. Religious freedom is more than the “freedom to worship” at a synagogue, church, or mosque.Dec 1, 2018

    What You Need to Know About Religious Freedom | The ...
    https://www.heritage.org › what-you-need-know-about-re...


    Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) affirming religious groups (also called gay-affirming) are religious groups that welcome LGBT members and do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. They include entire religious denominations, as well as individual churches and synagogues. Some are composed mainly of non-LGBT members and also have specific programs to welcome LGBT people, while others are composed mainly of LGBT members.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-affirming_religious_groups


    Clearly the world would be a better place if religion were completely abolished right along with beliefs.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  14. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    I am not asserting anything. But anyone asserting an afterlife. I think would perhaps postulate an analog to backing up data to the cloud, but not having a capability to restore from the cloud. If I backup daily and my computer crashes, the data that was on my computer still exists.

    Books such as the following are scientifically suggestive of some sort of cosmic data store (so to speak). Too bad this book is now more or less unaffordable. I read it when it was more available and found it a disturbing read.

    https://www.amazon.com/Reincarnatio...&keywords=ian+stevenson&qid=1622331866&sr=8-6
     
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  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    maybe, "spooky action at a distance", Quantum entanglement allows that

    also possible that time is always there and that your life force can access the past as easily as the present and future

    even weirder, you could be reincarnated in the past... meaning you could affect your present, so who knows how many timelines we have - maybe were all the same life force

    sounds like an interesting book, but yeah, pricey now
     
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  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Hmm I dont recall yahweh genociding anyone, care to cite it for us?"

    don't remember the flood story?
     
  17. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is a fecund topic for pondering, though your OP-- if you don't mind me saying so, my friend-- I feel gives short shrift to any of the reasons that we have religion, in the first place. Perhaps you just preferred to leave the thread wide open, & let all the empty spaces get filled-in, as the conversation progressed. The disadvantage I see in this strategy, is that it would be highly unusual, in any thread, for there not to be many conversations proceeding simultaneously; so when it comes to something so involved, and nuanced, and disputed, as this, there would seem barely a prayer of success in having one, thread-wide conversation in which the various basic arguments get covered, before the conversation fragmented into its individual congregations. I think there is an analogy in there, somewhere.

    The first thing that should sensibly to be addressed, I would posit, is the concept that humans, generally, have a spiritual INSTINCT. I admit, I tend to accept this as true, though it could be argued, of course, that it is a social construct, among other possibilities. Does it not seem practical, however, to initially test the waters of consensus, around the idea of whether or not there exists a psychological need for religion, before moving on to discussing getting rid of it?
     
  18. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Atheist churches aim to provide some features of a religious congregation - fellowship and collective enjoyment - while forgoing any belief in a deity or the supernatural.May 21, 2018

    What are atheist churches? | The Week UK
    https://www.theweek.co.uk › News › World News

    People also ask
    What is an atheist church called?
    Sunday Assembly is a non-religious gathering co-founded by Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans in January 2013 in London, England. The gathering is mostly for non-religious people who want a similar communal experience to a religious church, though religious people are also welcome.

    Sunday Assembly - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Sunday_Assembly
     
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  19. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I mis-chose the word, "religion," instead of, "spirituality," at the conclusion of the prior post; though, actually, it was a mistake only as it will be interpreted, not as far as representing my meaning. That is, anyone who is, "spiritual," to my mind, has a relationship with that essence which we customarily refer to as God (even if the person thinks of it in other terms). So a practitioner of spiritual meditation, to me, is practicing their religion, in attempting congress with the divine, whether that meditator is a Buddhist, who does believe in a transcendent Consciousness, or just an eclectic practitioner, attempting to unlock their divine potential, within. A person could even consider themself God-- how could I say, for sure, that they were wrong (unless I knew God to be none other than Myself)?

    In a way, because even members of the same religion have differing conceptions, it could be said that all spiritual persons, practice their own religion. It is what governs one's conscience, but I believe it is more than simply one's Superego. It is something that gives us a sense of connectedness, of purpose, and of renewal. My main point, here, is that one can practice their religious faith, either alone, or in a group. So this is a question, also, that seems worthy of group debate: do the contentions of the OP apply equally to practices of group religion, and to more solitary traditions and techniques? It was my impression that the OP may fault the directing of a group animus, by micro-managing religious leaders, for much of the violence; nevertheless, have Buddhist nations shown themselves to be less-violent? Are there any discernible differences we see in these places?

    While this is something in which I have no background, a quick internet search, I think, really does suffice for a start, at least, on this conversation-- because there are so few majority-Buddhist countries:

    1. Cambodia (Khmer Rouge, anybody?)

    2. Thailand. The only SE Asian country to avoid colonialism (which of course factors into each one's history). In 1932, Thailand went from an absolute monarchy, to a constitutional monarchy. Much of the time since then, the country has actually been under de facto military rule: there have been 12 interventions, by the military.

    3. Myanmar (fmr. Burma). Currently in the midst of a political crisis, after a military coup, leading to a dictatorship, though the fight continues.

    4. Bhutan. I could not find out much about this tiny, isolated nation, near Tibet. Like many on this list, it has followed a very isolationist path (though was under British control, at one time). One thing that caught my eye, though, was that slavery, in Bhutan, was abolished in 1958.

    5. Laos. Communist since 1975, and is, still, though more recently has been warming to Western ideas, not long ago even joining the WTO. Still, it is one of the poorest nations in that part of the world (which is saying something).

    6. Mongolia. For whom, is not their 1st thought, "Genghis Khan?" Here is another theme, that might be interesting to try to decipher whether the prevailing religion could have played any part in this, or if it was strictly a matter of poverty + bad location: they, also, adopted Communism, in 1924. The only other details I gleaned were that they have had more than their share of purges (1928 - 32; 1937; 1939-- two of them), and that they have been heavily Soviet-influenced, militarily-dependent, probably even controlled.

    The only other nation on my list, Sri Lanka, I honestly didn't bother to check.

    So here is the ramification I am getting at: if even solitary-path, spiritual pursuits do not bring better results, how do we know that religion is to blame? Yes, certainly, people have used religion to justify war, butchery, torture, slavery, all manner of atrocities, and inhumane treatment of others; but how do we know how Bat Sht Cra-cra, people would have acted, without the OPIATE of the people?

    More to the point, even, is that if one blames the idea of merely there existing a common religious text, or teaching, or belief, or core concept, for all the OP-cited hardship, why would that not include the teachings of philosophers, and people like Deepak Chopra, & so forth? Though it's true there is no identifiable Chopra-cult, qualifying as a, "religion," at present-- in the absence of all other religious dogma, instruction, & encouragement, is it at all unlikely that there would not be a group who would look to Deepak, for guidance?

    This is what I see as the primary weak-point of the OP's suggestion. While it may be in the natures of some to take the individual path, even most of them are not constitutionally equipped to set up their religious shop, so to speak, from scratch. And, of course, there are many for whom religious ecstasy is synonymous with a breaking down of walls between other people and themselves; that is, it cannot be achieved without a group, to row the ship. To tell those people that, from now on it's just going to be DIY, for religion, is like telling those who already do have their own, private philosophy, centered around a spiritual idea, that they must cast off belief in anything that hasn't been scientifically verified. Hey, that works for some people. But clearly would not, for all.

    Keep searching gabmux, there's got to be a better way.
     
  20. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have two different responses to this. The first is not especially serious, but to share some of the colorful details you omitted: such as that the two founders, were stand-up comedians! Hey, I think that's kind of funny. In fact the wikipedia article you linked gave credit, as the real breakthrough event for generating buzz for the non-church, to its mention by another comedian, Stephen Fry--formerly of the team Fry & Laurie-- on The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson. I also find that a bit amusing, but my sense of humor may be atypical. But how about the idea that they began their ministry, if you will, in a church that had been DEconsecrated! Nobody giggling at that?

    I had a difficult birth.

    I will simply add to this, since it isn't my forte, that there is precedent for this connection between churches and (supposed) comedy. There is a group called The Church of the Sub-Genius, with which I am very lightly acquainted. I take it to be something of a parody of religion, and they worship some guy named Bob, but the members, nevertheless, seem very committed to it, even ardent about their group.

    There is some similarity and/or connection between C.S.G. and The Merry Pranksters (of West Coast fame, especially). That last group mostly pulled pranks, which not everyone appreciated (they were an inspiration for the acts of vandalism in the book & film, Fight Club). Actually, I remember reading that the group split at one time because many members not taking well the prank of one of its leaders, faking his own death and pretending to be dead for a number of years. If you think about it, that might have been a very biting & profound religious satire. Or he may have just been laying low, from the police.

    Lastly, I think it's interesting to mention, here, that I have heard many professional comedians contend, that comedians are the most miserable, unhappy people. They did not appear to be joking. I, obviously, cannot confirm this assertion. It may just indicate a tendency towards self-pity; I mean, aren't all WRITERS heavy drinkers, to combat their terribly lonely calling?
     
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  21. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But wouldn't that be trying to counter "brain washing" with more "brain washing"??
     
  22. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    How can trusting your own judgment be more brainwashing?
    Is this not about 'competing' beliefs?


    CDC Violated Law to Inflate COVID Cases and Fatalities

    Apr 18, 2021, 10:14:01 AM
    to Open Source Public Intelligence Research Group [ORG]

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/04/18/cdc-violated-law-to-inflate-covid-cases-and-fatalities.aspx?ui=551eda515442ee5cc8f0c77cc67b3f3febd63142ec0dc6cef1d4521e5ea666eb&sd=20200307&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1ReadMore&cid=20210418_HL2&mid=DM860983&rid=1135867621 CDC Violated Law to Inflate COVID Cases and Fatalities
    Story at-a-glance
    • Dr. Henry Ealy and his team started looking at CDC data on COVID-19 cases and fatalities in mid-March 2020, quickly realizing the agency was vastly exaggerating fatalities
    • Over-reporting of fatalities was enabled by a March 2020 change in how cause of death is reported on death certificates. Rather than listing COVID-19 as a contributing cause in cases where people died from other underlying conditions, it was to be listed as the primary cause
    • As of August 23, 2020, the CDC reported 161,392 fatalities caused by COVID-19. Had the long-standing, original guidelines for death reporting been used, there would have only been 9,684 total fatalities due to COVID-19
    • The CDC violated federal law, as the Paperwork Reduction Act requires data collection and publication to be overseen by the Office of Management and Budget. Proposed changes must be published in the Federal Register and be open to public comment. None of these transparency rules were followed
    • We don’t yet know who was responsible for altering the reporting rules in violation of federal law. To identify the culprits, formal grand jury investigation petitions have been sent to all U.S. attorneys and the U.S. Department of Justice, requesting a thorough, independent and transparent investigation; a direct public effort to gather signatures also commenced on the one-year anniversary of the CDC reporting change

    After all we have checks and balances to keep us 'SAFE', right? :clapping:
     
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  23. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Religions have inspired some marvelous art and music.
     
  24. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good point....but perhaps any subject can be the theme of "some marvelous art and music"....
    even a chair...
    Are you quite sure it is "religions" that have "inspired" anything or anyone??
    Are not "religions" themselves inspired by someone or something???
    It could even be that "religions" have obscured the original purpose that it's founder intended....
    for personal reasons or simply to make a profit. In any case religions have not made any measurable
    difference IMO...unless you count religious wars. Humans continue their insane behavior
    regardless of any "religion" so far. What will it take to wake them up?
     
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  25. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    If you're oppressed to a point where you need something to keep you from losing your mind and your humanity; when people don't treat you like people, but like animals. So rape own and abuse you, exterminate and eradicate you with force from your homes and steal from you and humiliate you.
     
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