Where is the answer to this mess?

@spiritgide

I think we need to transform Congress and get our Congress working for us again. We could do that by ...

- Repealing the 17th Amendment, thereby returning the selection of Senators to our state legislatures.

- Enacting a constitutional amendment limiting members of the House to two 2-year terms.

- Amending the Constitution to exclude political campaign contributions as a form of speech. Then we could pass some meaningful restrictions on campaign contributions.


We would end up with Senators who were beholden ONLY to their states, House members who were motivated by service to their constituents and the country, and a Congress that wasn’t so morally debilitated by special interests, big campaign donors, and their own desire to do anything to get re-elected over and over for decades.

These changes would transform our government for the better. And if we hope to have a better society, the example needs to be set at the top.

Seth

 

No question, upwards is the direction. But no matter what we do, I think there will always be complainers and people problems. Two factors to think of here. One- there are things that only the person can do for themselves, and we only make things worse enabling them to avoid that. Two-anything that works will come with competitive aspects. The best of people only comes out in that situation- and thus, there will always be winners and losers. that doesn't mean it can't be fair and have opportunity for all.

I think that a large percentage of people who think they are "exploited" are not, and are people responsible for their own problems. If a person blames others for where they are at, they say "I have no power to change this, someone else did it". If you refuse to accept responsibility for your own future, you abdicate your power- and your prediction of being "exploited" will seem to be true. Free will only serves you if you take it and use it.

Of course, I'm asking for ideas for correcting the overall situation, and on a rational time frame. If that's possible- it's obvious that rather than fight on every individual issue people raise, the solution must address underlying factors that create the many adverse conditions- kind of like curing a disease, where you treat the disease to get rid of the symptoms, as opposed to treating the symptoms but never addressing the disease. This is what I meant about finding the keystone, the place where a single change will spread like ripples and reach a variety of social symptoms. It know it does exist. I'm confident it can be done.

Job one is to identify it and know how it could work. Job two is to put it in place- execute the plan. Both of those tasks are formidable. Unfortunately, we all know that our politicians are never going to do this, and that somehow- a people's movement must, or it will never happen.

We know that there are probably three factors to address.
One is corruption in politics. Not necessarily the intent to be criminal, but the entrenched pattern that has become the whole game. Politics seems devoid of honor and integrity these days, and if we can't restore confidence in leadership, there will be no confidence in America.
The second is the way money affects the game. By that, I mean money that fuels corruption; money used to buy influence for example. Money is not a bad thing in itself, but handled wrong it easily becomes the fuel.
The third is public's common perceptions and value system. Whatever we think is OK; or that we can't do anything about- we will tolerate. Without question, we need to raise the bar on that.
That requires a shift in thinking that will take time, but first- it has to get started, gain popularity.

There is a thing called a cascade effect. This is kind of like follow the leader- where a thing is acceptable or not depending on what others of importance around you do or accept. It's like when kids hang out with the wrong people, they wind up becoming like them. The effect can either improve or diminish- and because it will take a lot of time to move a society by any means, we need something that will cascade in a way that improves our values- there by our behavior. Human environmental shift. A successful plan has to start that in motion. A landslide starts with one push in the right place.

Years ago I had a friend who was a district court judge. One day discussing law, he told me "The best regulator is the self regulator. If everybody self-regulated, I'd be out of a job." That's true. I think the right answer here would become a kind of social vaccine, one that would promote self regulating qualities and improve all of us.

 

Although I appreciate your intentions, there just isn't any precedent for a successful endgame for what you ask. No amount of small ball ideas and policy proposals ("reduce government!" "fix education!") will:

a) ever be implemented

b) make any difference if they were.

We're on the tail end of a fairly typical historical pattern, where a republic or democracy turns (either slowly or suddenly) to tyranny. The future of the United States is larger government, more bureaucracy, more intrusion into our lives and liberties, and more authoritarianism. The is no scenario that I see where things go the other way.

 

I don't disagree but you would need to make federal government a lot smaller to improve its quality. Smaller makes for less incompetence and less corruption. I draw a comparison to something like beer quality when comparing Anheuser Busch and Miller to the artisanal brewers. Businesses lose competence as they grow. It is natural. When I go to the supermarket I often buy a cup of coffee at the store coffee bar that is right next to a Starbucks bar that serves inferior coffee at a higher price. At one time Starbucks was an artisanal coffee roaster in Seattle with a high quality product. Today I pass them by. Perhaps we should move at least part of the way toward an artisanal government.

 

Here's a story that sums up the essential problem beautifully.

A teacher gave each of his students a map of the world with all the countries and regions on it, torn up into pieces like a jigsaw puzzle, and instructed them to put the map of the world back together.
All the children were struggling with putting their maps back together correctly because the pieces were very complicated with lots of details, but then one girl raised her hand and said she was finished.
The teacher was astounded at how quickly she was able to put the world map back together and asked her how she did it.
She said that is was very simple. She saw that on the back of the map, there was a picture of a man, so she simply put the man back together and the world was also put back together.
Another solution is found in Luke 6:42.
It ain't rocket science, just inconvenient truth.

 

1) Helping each other out is one of the first things we abandoned after 1960, in the believe we were rich and safe enough to fly solo without consequences. Good luck trying to convince those who despise that kind of social responsibility (IOW Progressives).

2) LOL, no we're not! We're just as susceptible to our animal nature as we ever were. We have to work with it to get anywhere. That means looking to the most successful (ie stable) models for human society. And here's the rub - none of them are 'something greater' than tribalism. It's actually tribalism which prompts us to help each other out. In fact it's the ONLY thing which will motivate us to help out our fellows.

 

1) We will only do that when our tribalism is restored. We HAVE to know .. as social mammals .. that 'those we see around us' can be trusted. Only those who've earned their place in the tribe can offer that trust certainty, and thus unlock the enormous good will and self-sacrifice we are capable of.

2) Of course. All carbon life is exploitative in some way.

 

Yep.

 

It's only inconvenient to those who want man to stay dismantled.

 

I believe that there are millions of very intelligent, wise and morally upstanding people from all sides of the political spectrum here in America. If both major parties would seek out and promote candidates with those qualities, they could help direct this country forward and work too root out corruption and waste in government. The last two elections were a great example of what you get when our election process is filled with tons of dark money and back room deals and a hate filled media. This began in the late 1980s with the abolition of the fairness doctrine and the rise of political hate radio. Now there are several 24/7/365 news channels which are nothing more than propaganda mills. Let’s face it, if Trump, a well known conman and pathological liar and Biden a bumbling old machine politician are the best our process can come up with, there is definitely a huge problem in how we pick our national candidates today.

In my lifetime we have had several elections in which two qualified, capable candidates ran against each other and ran respectful, dignified campaigns. Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Kennedy vs Nixon, Johnson vs Goldwater, Nixon vs Humphrey, Nixon vs McGovern, Ford vs Carter, Reagan vs Carter and up through Obama vs Romney were all pretty clean and respectful contests. The last two turd fests have been a result of these hyperbolic “news” outlets. If we keep this up the circus will keep getting more absurd and the candidates will keep getting worse. I think it’s time for both parties to take a deep breath and start getting serious about who they nominate.

 

You are exactly wrong. Our egoic mind is exactly the problem. It is what divides people into categories, races, nations, etc. It was a survival mechanism that is nearing the end of its usefulness. It may take a few more centuries, but humanity is ready for its next step in evolution. That is why there is so much more unrest. We are reaching the point in human consciousness where when a person sees another person and sees only another aspect of themselves. Nations will become obsolete, the concept of race will become obsolete, and ideologies will be a thing of the past. There are many who think this way now, and there are many more, especially older people set in their archaic animal like ways that are stuck in their old ways. But there are many other older people that have woken up as well.

Like I said, it's a process that may take centuries, but it has already begun, and is inevitable. I'm sure plenty here will mock it, but the world is going to be a much better place once we get through the growing pains of throwing off the old ideologies.

 

Tribalism is the problem. We are moving into the next phase of consciousness where we leave animals behind.

 

I don't think there is any argument against that, it has created much of the mess.
The question however is- how to fix it. The citizens are unable to act as a whole in the way you describe; there will need to be some move initiated which could trigger that. Have any idea what would do that?

 

There has definitely been a concerted effort to divide and conquer the citizens of America which has come to a fever pitch in the last 15-20 years. It was predicted back in the 1930s by Eddie Bernays regarding media control of the masses. At this point all politics are is a diversion created like thieves have always used to rob a store. Start a scuffle on one side of the store while a gang of thieves walk out the other side with the loot. This whole left vs right false paradigm has been created by the same entity. The key is like Josh 77 says. A critical mass of consciousness by the people as a whole. Until that transpires, the thieves will continue the circus and keep on stealing with both hands. What could trigger the change would be a great, charismatic, intelligent, wise and incorruptible person to rise to national prominence and create a following.

 

Radical - isation. Zero sum politics is a loose, loose. Don't be a player.

 

Very good analysis. I would add, however, that the dirtiness in presidential races didn't just start with Trump. Let's not forget the 24/7 assault of the RW against Bill Clinton, or the Karl Rove years, when Kerry was Swiftboated, etc.

The problem is that in the age of soundbite social media, going negative ALWAYS wins. You don't win by having better policy proposals than the opponent, or by being a better person, you win by convincing the majority of the voters that your opponent is the devil incarnate. Thanks Citizens United, allowing unlimited money for attack ads.

 

<Mod Edit> This passive aggressive game, or incremental takeover is getting quite dull. I think they prefer it that way. Most of them prefer to stay stealth. It's getting to the point it will have to be up to our kids.....problem is most don't know, care to know, or are indifferent about our history. Our generation surely let them down. Perhaps we should have captured the education and media market instead of building America! All I do anymore is pray and do the best I can.

 

Trump was payback for what the paragons of America that you imagine, exist, have done to America and to the voters that elected Trump.

He'll be back - because you guys and your arrogance will never change.

 

WISE!

 

I really don’t think he or another cynical, greedy, self centered, megalomaniac is the answer to any of our problems. We need a much higher grade of individual in the White House, in congress and in the judicial sector.

 

Yes, someone with a moral compass that looks beyond themselves and today.

 

Your first point ignored the fact that these state legislatures in many states are now conducting idiotic ultra partisan “audits” which are designed to create laws which would allow ultra partisan panels to count the votes in national elections. I believe it was Stalin who once said: “It matters not who votes, but rather who counts the votes”. In Michigan and Pennsylvania right now, there are efforts right now to stack election boards with crackpot political hacks.

Letting the people in the states vote directly for their choice of US Senators is more conducive to electing Senators who represent them and their state than being appointed by a bunch of political hacks who hold positions that can be bought and paid for by monied interests for chump change. Look at the crackpots in Arizona, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Better yet, every state should be represented in the US Senate according to their populations. Right now states which were artificially created and mapped out long after the constitution was ratified are vastly over represented in the all important US Senate which has total control of all federal courts including the SCOTUS. The closer we get to one man one vote in all federal elections, the better in my opinion.

 

I'm not talking about consuming calories. I'm talking about workers who work their ass off earning barely enough to get buy, while some CEO's push some paper around and earn millions, while creating conditions for their workers that are just soul crushing. Pay should reflect the reality of energy expended, as should all things. Certainly interest on debts should be eliminated, as that represents the transfer of energy that does not even exist. It's a ridiculous shell game that makes individuals far more wealthy and powerful than they should be, with no basis in the real energy economy that is occurring.

A form of "capitalism" where humanity has gained the desire to help those around them by taking for themselves what they need to get by, and then using the rest to help those around them who are struggling is what is required to heal the world. Politics where the objective is not to secure power, but to implement the best ideas to raise up those around them. That sort of thinking is going to require ignoring the animalistic human ego that was required for survival in the past, but is a hindrance in present times.

 

Jack, state legislatures are made of many, many small districts. Every election cycle Republicans and Democrats run for those seats. Those state legislators are each elected by a popular vote of the people. Now I may not especially like the political complexion of my state legislature, but I have to admit that it is representative of the numerical difference between Republicans and Democrats in my state. If the state legislature selected their Senators, they would invariably select one from the majority party in the state legislature. But what difference does that make? If the vote is held by popular vote, the candidate in the majority party almost always wins anyways. By having the state legislature make the selections, those selections are only one step removed from the popular vote of the people. And, more importantly, those Senators are now beholden only to their state. They do not have to follow the orders of the party leadership in the Senate. Instead, they have to follow the wishes of their state legislature which was elected by the people and which can hire and fire them. Also under that system, a Senator would have absolutely no need for campaign cash contributions, and we all know the corrupting influence of campaign cash contributions. And if the political balance of the state legislature changed, so would the Senators.

I don't see that system as thwarting the will of the people, and it would be an important step towards making Congress better than it is.

Seth

 

I can agree totally with the creation of diversions and distractions to get people embroiled in emotional issues, to the point they lost focus on more important things. Still- I'm looking for input on ideas that coul reverse all this, in relatively short time. There is a way, maybe several ways- and to see them, we are going to have to look past those distractions.