Where is the answer to this mess?

The reality is that the vast majority of Amazon workers don't WANT to run the company. The evidence for this lack of interest is the fact that they choose to be employees !!! If they were the kinds of people who want to run businesses, they'd be running businesses.

 

Having a vote on policies and major decisions is completely different than running the business day to day.

 

1) They would be effectively powerless. And it wouldn't be ME not giving a damn about them .. I'm on the side of offering very solid alternatives remember. The only people not giving a damn, would be the disempowered people themselves - since they clearly didn't care about their own future. And again, the only people 'displaced' would be those who chose not to plan ahead. Since they would have their own personal reasons for choosing not to, it's none of my business either way.

2) No one is suffering from discrimination. Institutional racism was outlawed years ago. The playing field has been level just as long.

3) There is no inequality. We're all equal under law.

 

To a lot of people, it isn't. ANY responsibility additional to that which they have volunteered for, is unwelcome.

 

Absolutely, when they have no stake in the success of the business. They show up and get paid, and could care less beyond that what happens. But if everyone who works in a business is a part owner, I think you will find they become far more involved. And if they still don't care, then they can just not vote and carry on with whatever everyone else decides.

 

What are you missing here? If people WANTED to be part owners in a business, then they would be that already. You can't make people who have zero interest, magically want to be involved in the running of a business.

Why can't you just allow people to decide for themselves how they'll run their lives? What's with all the interference? Do you feel the need to force people into situations they don't want?

 

Still very liberal views you have.

For one who rails against the left. You have very leftist goals.

 

Being a leftist and being liberal are two completely different cats.

 

Oh yes, I’m such a tyrant, wanting to give people the opportunity to better their lives.

I’m not forcing anything. They could of course refuse the chance to take ownership of the means of production. No one would force them to have a better life. It would remain a free country.

if you think the only thing keeping people from improving their lot in life is the desire to, you are absolutely delusional.

 

Not on any forum I've been on.

 

1) All we can do is provide opportunities. We can't make people take them - as evidenced by the fact that recent migrants will say America (or anywhere in the First World) is FULL of opportunity, while lazy locals will say the opposite.

2) And the vast majority WILL refuse.

3) I don't think that - I KNOW it. If even one person manages to 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps', then the conditions must exist for it to happen. Since thousands and thousands of people do it every day, any claim that it's impossible is a lie. When people say 'it's too hard', what they're really saying is 'it's too hard for me'. It has nothing to do with externals .. it's their own personal circumstances and preferences which prevent them moving forwards. There's nothing you or I can (or should) do about that. People create their realities according to their goals and desires in life. Further, when a refugee from the Third World, who's had a much harder life and has huge challenges after arriving in the West, does not find it 'too hard', we know that it's an entirely personal thing. No one can fix that but the individual.

 

In reality, they're poles apart.

 

Forums are hardly reality.

 

So you think all liberals are leftist? Never heard that from anyone on any forum before.

 

According to the RW. Not all no. But I certainly get called left all the time. By you in all like likelihood.

 

Let me help you out.
Liberals are willing to respect opinions different from their own; open to new ideas.
Leftist are politically bias on all accounts.

The fact that you don't know this would tend make people believe you're a leftist.

 

Mentality is exactly it. It is everything. Our entire system is designed to keep people at a certain mentality, one that keeps them as a cog in the machine, one that keeps them as a victim. That mentality is reinforced on purpose by society and government.

People coming here from third world countries have a distinct advantage. They are not hampered with the lifetime of mental challenges and obstacles that are fed to so many here.

You are wrong. There is very much that we as society and should do about that.

 

Thanks Butter. People forget basics of being civil far too easily.

It takes no skill, no self control or personal values to be violent, abusive, reactionary, rude, childish, arrogant or any of the many obnoxious behaviors so common. Those things are natural, crude, primitive "skills" if you will. Except for our value systems; our choice to rise above them- they would be all we are, but those value systems must be learned. Thus the environment of your childhood home, what you live in in your most formative years is important in giving you the tools of a civilized society.

Children learn from day one by the environment their home presents. They see their parents working together and making consistent good choices- or they see chaos and irrational violence, and they learn that too. Even when we have been raised in a good home environment, the natural instinctive aspects of us are still there; and if we fail to choose to be better- that is what we revert to.

However the adult environment also needs to support a sound value system, or it will erode from the constant presence of the more at is a balance against the primitives motivations. In the same way parents influence the values of their children- leaders of all kinds influence the balance of good values against primitive reactions. If leaders are unable to demonstrate good values, such as integrity, respect for others, the ability to discuss rationally and acknowledge facts, admit mistakes, be truthful with the people- all the benefits of those values are lost, and some people will revert strongly to the primitive impulses.

We've been seeing this increase for a long time, but in the most recent times, it's broken out in great strength. This is potentially fatal to a civilized society. This isn't something that is inevitable- it's no more than repeatedly lowering the bar to excuse bad conduct and lack of values. When a school decides for example to delete the F or failing grade because they think it unfairly discriminates against black students, they discard the entire purpose of education- and they harm their black students by graduating them without the education they came for. There's a long, long list of things that are happening solely because we are lowering our standards, discarding values- and allowing undisciplined and juvenile thinking to take over. Now we are "discussing" much of this behavior like it actually had some trace of validity; and even discussing ludicrous conduct this way gives it a seat at the table. It doesn't deserve that. It deserves immediate rejection. Just as you don't negotiate with a child throwing a tantrum on the floor of the grocery store- much of this garbage should be summarily shut down. Certainly if leaders to cannot or will not do that, then citizens must find a way. That IS the topic of this thread.

Just as would be in a home or classroom- when the leaders fail to uphold and require those values, they fade, and behavior degrades, taking the quality of life with it. the proof of that has been the core of news reports you've seen over the last few years.

Thus- the first step to reversing this is to find a way to cause leaders to consistently maintain those values; to model them in their own conduct, and to take action to eliminate people in positions of leadership who will not support them. This must be a no-choice, zero tolerance kind of thing. You either respect the obligations of the job you hold in public trust, and you model the best conduct- or you are out.

Think on it that way.

 

Yep, but the conditions that existed are for that person. What you don't understand is that other people's circumstances are different than yours.

 

While this is true- The capacity of the people is also different, and they control that side of the equation.

If you come to river on your hike and want to cross, you have options. You can say- I can't cross that... or you can say- Damn. Have to build a raft.

Life has challenges, and they vary with time, locations and much more. Successful living is defined by the way you meet challenges- and demanding they go away or someone else do it for you because it ain't fair... is a very poor strategy. Defines the losers among us, and that is THEIR CHOICE.

We all come equipped with the primary tool to meet challenges of all kinds- also known as a brain. Use it well, you not only meet challenges and solve problems, but you grow in wisdom and skills enabling you to handle bigger challenges. Otherwise you stay on the porch and whine the rest of your life, because you "can't". Choice is up to you; don't blame it on anyone else.

 

At which point say, I don't know how, have the tools, or am in physical shape to do it. By the way, using your brain also mean recognizing when you need help.

 

There are always going to be those among us who genuinely need help, and we have to help them. We do, in fact, help them. The comment made earlier is, I believe, addressing those among us who are perfectly able to help themselves but still expect, or even demand, others do things for them. They’ve been taught to be helpless.

 

Nope, just smart enough to get people to do it for them.

 

Yes, it does.
Many people use that option to call on others because they don't like calling on themselves.
That's where my brain has to decide if they are using theirs, or attempting to use me to avoid using theirs.

 

I don’t consider that smart.