Where is the mandate?

Are you really trying to say that the vaccine would rid us of Covid?

 

My dear Man, I was till I got 55 a professional athlete in a Olympic sport with a world ranking in the top 500. Trained 10s of people, young and old, diet and so on. Trained them not just in the sport but what it takes mentily, how to eat, how to deal with the ups and down, how to let loose of the ever demanding regimen of fitness, the proper diet, how to deal with pear pressure and so on and son.
When ever they quit, all that was forgotten, no infection. They eat better, yes, its a matter of taste and effort. Do any of them make a point to exercise, no.
Me I got a farm and a business, I do not give a crap about my diet, eat what I want, farm, natural exercise, fix fences, work in the forest and with the livestock and garden, its livestyle, healthy have not seen a doctor for 10 years.

Did I infect anybody with the virus of being active, or hyper active, no,they did it for a while. Watch your weight, still the same when I was 50, it just shifts with age, no they just blew up. Has any of those weight watcher or exercise Gurus made a change, never, or obesity, physical laziness, fast food would be out of business.
You mix hard physical work, farm for example, with the discipline of work out which copies it.
Its livestyle, not a disease which will have serious health problems in the long run and could be dangerous and the un- vaxed help it to mutate into some more dangerous.
Sorry discipline, you must be joking

 

But yes, it starves the virus of hosts. How did we get rid of polio, or the pocks and all the other crap, by vaccination and nothing else, not by prayers, diets, vitamins or livestyle and denial, with a piiiicks and a sugar cube, or a cut on the upper arm. If we get a propper vacc rate we can get rid of C19 and prevent further mutation, of this specific Virus and its mutations.

 

Then why are fully vaccinated people still getting Covid?

 

This is not a real vaccine. It's an mRNA therapy and it only builds antibodies to the spike protein, not the virus.

 

There is no 100% vaccine, neither polio or the pocs the threshold is 50% and better. For may years people still got polio or the pocs or what ever, despite being vaccinated, but the percentage went down and eventually got rid of the decease. I was 3 times vaccinated against the pocs an every other year against polio till finally the decease was stopped. A vaccine is not a silver or golden bullet. We had 60%, today we have from 70 to 90%.
Its ne Silver and Golden Bullet, 90%, even if you are vaccinated, you can be one of the 10%.
Every vaccine has that problem, they are not 100%.

 

was that a try, for a intelligent answer, than you failed.
Very sorry about that.

Try again.

 

Was your post intended as irony? You could include a real argument or at the very least be somewhat grammatically sensible.

 

Wotan give me strength.

Every vaccine targets the weak spot of a virus, not the virus and they are the proteins.
To make it simple for you, I think it is needed. The outershel, which keeps the virus alive, is fats. Soap and Alcohol, dissolve fats and will kill any virus.
Washing hands and surfaces, you know that routine, probably not
The spike protein the virus needs to attach to your cells is destroyed by the vaccines, because of it the virus can not enter your body or cells
and dies of. simple as that
Any vaccine attacks the weak spot of a virus, not he virus.

I hope I helped you with your education, which grade are you in ?

 

I’m having a hard time understanding how your anecdote about being an athlete is at all relevant to the numerous peer reviewed studies I just provided you links to and pull quotes from.

I also get exercise from farm work. But that does not change any of the facts I’ve presented you. It’s completely irrelevant.

The hyperactive and blowing up stuff I’m not getting. The unvaxxed and the vaxxxed can both be the host of dangerous mutations. The obese, diabetic, etc., be they vaccinated or unvaccinated, are more likely to be the host of a dangerous mutation than those of healthy weight.

I’m not joking. I don’t joke about people’s health. Everything I’ve posted is supported by the best evidence we have. Your unsubstantiated opinions are interesting but not relevant to the facts I’ve presented to counter this incorrect statement by you.

Diet and laziness DO harm others. Covid is mostly a preventable lifestyle disease. If you want to dispute any of my offered evidence or present counter evidence I’m all for that. But anecdotes of being an athlete aren’t counter evidence to peer reviewed studies. Sorry.

 

You do get several things wrong and your links. I was a influencer, a professional trainer and not a infection.
everybody of us is a influencer. We project our livestyle and try to get people hooked, to our livestyle. Naturally that works at the lowest level. How the parents live, are they fat, the kids are fat, are the parents physical lazy, the kids are, fat and lazy.
You take them out of that environment, as I did and teach them how to live right, being super athletes and they return to their original environment, they become blobs.
If you do not have the mindset, on your own, the discipline, without a 24/7/365, the influencer forget about it.
Its not infectious by any means, its a livestyle you have to adopted and keep. 90% will not get that infection, just check the health figures.
A 10% vaccine is a joke.

Nope, Covid is a virus and hits you no matter, what your lifestyle is, even the super athletes and thousands have had covid and are dealing with the after effects.

Nope you are wrong, but no suprise.

 

You offer no evidence I’m wrong. Just unsubstantiated opinions. If I’m wrong you would be able to post some evidence to support your opinions. I have provided the highest quality evidence to support my posts. You provide personal anecdotes.

You have nothing but a fallacious argument. Don’t feel bad. You are in the majority—the majority that rejects evidence in favor of personal unsubstantiated opinion.

Covid is a disease of lifestyle. Ninety percent of Covid deaths worldwide are in countries with greater than 50% of the population overweight or obese. Most comorbidities are lifestyle induced and almost 95% of hospitalized Covid patients have one or more of these comorbidities. When you have some actual evidence to support your position I’ll have renewed interest in this conversation. But I’m weary of unsubstantiated opinion. Stay safe.

 

Sorry to inform you of this but simply testing positive for antibodies is no guarantee of protection, if all that you are doing is qualitative serology testing (which most commonly - depending on what test you're using - just shows if you have antibodies against the N (nucleocapside) protein or not, regardless of the amount - it's just a Yes or No test) instead of quantitative tests for neutralizing antibodies against the S (spike) protein, which give you a titer (that is, whether or not you have sufficient neutralizing antibodies to neutralize the virus).

So, you may continue to test positive for the N protein antibody for a long time, while your protection may be long gone. Serology N tests should not be used to predict immunity or to guide behavior or vaccination.

These N protein antibody tests just show that you had the infection in the past. Antibodies against the N protein can be neutralizing to a degree but are much weaker in this regard than the IgG antibodies against the RBD (receptor binding domain) which resides in the subunit S1 of the S protein. Not all antibodies are the neutralizing kind. They can merely be the binding kind which does play some role in clearing the virus but not as strongly as the ones that target the RBD of the S protein.

Unless your tests are part of a research protocol, chances are overwhelming that you're not doing the neutralizing antibodies test, which are way more sophisticated and complex, and most of them use live virus, requiring a BioSafety Level 3 lab.

----------------

Optional part of this post, only if you're interested in details:

There are different assays to gauge neutralizing antibodies. Here is an example, the assay called Live Virus Focus Reduction Neutralization Tests. They are expressed in FRNT50 titers, which represent the reciprocal dilution of serum that neutralizes 50% of the input virus.

See how complicated this test is, if you have any interest in the details (it's very unlikely that this is what your lab is doing; more used for research in phase I-II-III trials than for clinical applications):

Serum samples are diluted at 3-fold in 8 serial dilutions using DMEM (VWR, #45000-304) in duplicates with an initial dilution of 1:10 in a total volume of 60 microliters. Serially diluted samples are incubated with an equal volume of SARS-CoV-2 (100-200 Foci forming units per well) at 37 degrees C for 1 hour in a round-bottomed 96-well culture plate. The antibody-virus mixture is then added to Vero cells and incubated at 37degrees C for 1 hour. Post-incubation, the antibody-virus mixture is removed and 100 µl of prewarmed 0.85% methylcellulose (Sigma-Aldrich, #M0512-250G) overlay is added to each well. Plates are incubated at 37 degrees C for 24 hours. After 24 hours, methylcellulose overlay is removed, and cells are washed three times with PBS. Cells are then fixed with 2% paraformaldehyde in PBS (Electron Microscopy Sciences) for 30 minutes. Following fixation, plates are washed twice with PBS and 100 µl of permeabilization buffer (0.1% BSA [VWR, #0332], Saponin [Sigma, 47036-250G-F] in PBS), is added to the fixed Vero cells for 20 minutes. Cells are incubated with an anti-SARS-CoV spike primary antibody directly conjugated to biotin (CR3022-biotin) for 1 hour at room temperature. Next, the cells are washed three times in PBS and avidin-HRP is added for 1 hour at room temperature followed by three washes in PBS. Foci are visualized using TrueBlue HRP substrate (KPL, # 5510-0050) and imaged on an ELISPOT reader (CTL). Antibody neutralization is quantified by counting the number of foci for each sample using the Viridot program. The neutralization titers are calculated as follows: 1 - (ratio of the mean number of foci in the presence of sera and foci at the highest dilution of respective sera sample).

An alternative to the Live Virus neutralization tests has been developed, to be used in BSL2 labs. It's called Pseudotyped Vesicular Stomatitis Virus expressing SARS-CoV-2 spike protein test. For now it only exists in academic institutions.

Another alternative, much simpler, is the LIAISON SARS-CoV-2 TrimericS IgG assay, which is the second generation of the Disorin immunoassay that is semi-quantitative, expressed in AU (arbitrary units) per mL for IgG against the S protein. It does not use live virus. It correlates to some degree with neutralizing antibody. It is not a perfect way like the FRNT assay, but it does give us some indication of the effective immunity or lack thereof. These tests haven't been standardized, though.

 

But, most of the people who have covid right now are the vaccinated ones and they are predominantly the ones who are spreading it. Why do you think Israel with the highest concentration of Vaccinated population worldwide has such a great number of people with Covid?

 

So what? The virus can't infect the host's cells without the spike protein. It's the virus' Achilles Heel. Targeting it, works.

What do you call a "real vaccine"?

There are numerous vaccine platforms. Whole inactivated virus, whole attenuated virus, protein subunit, mRNA, virus-vector, DNA, etc. (if you want to learn about them all, consult my thread State of the Vaccines, pinned to the top of the Coronavirus Discussions subforum)... They are all vaccines, that is, something that primes and trains your immune system to fight off and neutralize a pathogen. That's what vaccines are, and the mRNA vaccines entirely fulfill this definition. Besides, who cares for semantics? The important part is that the mRNA vaccines work.

Do you think that building antibodies against the S protein instead of the whole virus is a minus? No, it's an advantage. There are two kinds of antibodies: binding, and neutralizing. Binding antibodies against the whole virus, targeting for example its N, E, or M proteins, are not very effective. Antibodies against the S1 part of the S protein that contains the Receptor Binding Domaine, are neutralizing and are the ones that do the job. So, focusing on the effective ones actually is more efficient, which is why the mRNA vaccines yield better results than the attenuated virus vaccines such as China's CoronaVac. In all trials, the mRNA vaccines beat the CoronaVac in effectiveness, and the CoronaVac uses the whole virus.

Look at the Merriam-Webster definition of a vaccine:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine

Observe definition b:

"a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)"

 

Most? No. Unvaccinated ones are still more likely to catch the virus than a vaccinated person who has a high titer of neutralizing antibodies. 5 times more likely. Read this:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...unvaccinated-5-times-more-likely-get-covid-19

But yes, the protection is not 100%.

What is happening in Israel is due to two things: one, they started early and vaccines lose efficacy after 5-7 months, especially Pfizer which was the one they used. Two, Delta is more infectious and able to re-infect. So, yes, Israel is having a surge. It doesn't mean the vaccines don't work. It only means that the vaccines are not 100% protective, but nobody has ever pretended that they are. Still, you're better off with the vaccine, both to decrease the odds of catching it and to decrease the odds of hospitalization and death. Most vaccinated people have mild cases, if they do catch the virus.

You're looking at Israel, why don't you look at Japan? They started late... so their vaccination is more recent. But when they started, in the middle of a huge surge of cases, they vaccinated fast and rapidly achieved 70% of the population being fully vaccinated. Result: cases and deaths dropped dramatically.

So the conclusion is that recent vaccination obviously is better than vaccination 6+ months ago.

Also, what you are not taking into account is that a booster - in Israeli data, mind you - restores the efficacy, boosting the antibody titers 10-11 fold.

So, what the Israeli and Japanese experiences are telling us, is that probably we'll need a dose of the vaccine every six months to stay protected, which sure, is annoying, but not the end of the world. I think that a 5-minute trip to a pharmacy to get a booster beats 2 weeks in a hospital breathing through a ventilator.

 

I know the coronavirus has only been with us for a year and a half, but I wonder what are the chances that upon vaccination and the build up of antibodies, that eventually over time a fully vaccinated person who keeps up with the boosters will have a consistently strong response to the virus? Like, I'm imagining the day when boosters won't be necessary.

 

Things could go either way. Vaccine efficacy could drop too with repeated vaccination (it has happened to the flu). Or not, maybe we'll develop second generation, broad spectrum vaccines (efforts on this are under way; look at my most recent post in my State of the Vaccines thread).

 

@Texan
There's been a pre-print article that sheds some light about protective levels of antibodies.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.09.21261290v1.full.pdf

 

A great question, but part of the answer is that they continue to be tested with a test that cannot and does not detect infection.

 

What people forget this is just the 1.0 vaccine. The 2,0 and 3.0 will have a far greater spectrum.
Take Tetanus. When Tetanus came out it needed a booster every 2 years and @Center Field please correct me, I remember that it was a 2 shot regime in the beginning and than the booster every 2 years.
The next generation was a 5 year booster. I got my booster this year and it is a 10 year booster.
Next year we will see the 2.0 c19 vaccines, which will cover a broader range of c19 and probably a longer lasting protection

 

Which is a load of crap. 99% who catch c19 now, are unvaccinated and are the spreaders. My county has a incident number of wooping 534 and every single one is not vaccinated.
You are repeating flat out lies.

 

I'm not looking for guarantees. I just want freedom.

 

As if getting a shot in any way reduces your freedom.

 

I've known 2 people who have had blood clots after getting vaccinated. One died. I'd rather trust my antibodies. If I were in a vulnerable class, I might think differently. I've known 4 people who have died from covid. Pick your poison.