Where is the answer to this mess?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by spiritgide, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This is a very common misunderstanding by those who are looking for ways to blame those who are destitute or working from paycheck to paycheck.

    In Seattle we've found that a good percentage of the homeless, living on the street, are employed in full time jobs.
     
  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Over a lifetime, as a renter, you're going to be paying out something around that figure. And at the end you will have NOTHING to show for it. No one with a functioning brain thinks any but the very rich can afford to throw a million bucks down the drain.

    Once again, I invite you to show your math. Show us how a person can afford to throw away a million dollars over their lifetime, yet somehow not be able to afford $50k on something that will likely PAY THEM a million dollars over their lifetime.

    Seriously, if you genuinely can't see the profound absurdity of what you're suggesting - there is something going on with you that no conversation is going to cure.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This is just so wildly unrealistic as to be irritating.

    People who are living paycheck to paycheck don't get OK'd for home loans. Plus, the federal tax deduction is meaningless, as they aren't paying federal taxes anyway. Plus, the idea that they could make the home and insurance payments is unrealistic. Plus, people need to have a cushion in the case of unforeseen requirements - sickness, job loss, etc., and people in that range of income are typically unable to do even that. One result is that if they DID have a mortgage on a house, they could be near the brink of foreclosure.
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm only talking about unemployed people. You're free to have your own coversations about the homeless in Seattle, of course.
     
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  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) It's not even in the same universe of 'unrealism' as the idea that a poor person can throw away a million dollars, yet not find $50k to invest and thus grow. As for irritating, enabling the poor to make such terrible decisions is way past an irritant - it's horrifying. Only you know why you're invested in doing that.

    2) We're talking about CASH purchases - which is why I restricted it to $50k. Once that property is owned, the owner can be sick, lose their job, retire, whatever - and their home will remain theirs, rent free for life. You've also conveniently left out that for a renter, sickness/job losses etc are FAR more of a problem, because rent has to be paid til the day you die.

    3) And the other elephant in the room - how does throwing away a million dollars with nothing to show for it, help the next generation? It doesn't. It just locks them into another round of entrenched poverty. Whereas that $50k house will secure rent free living for future generations. The difference that rent free, stable housing makes to someone's chances in life, is astronomical. And that's before you even factor in the capital growth in value of that $50k purchase. By the time your kids are adults with families of their own, it'll likely be worth far more than you paid for it. Every cent will come back to the family - tenfold.

    Now go ahead - show how it's better for a poor person to throw away a million dollars, than spend $50k establishing a platform for financial security for generations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You were talking about buying a home!!

    How much money do you think mortgage companies will loan someone who is unemployed?

    How much do you think they have for a down payment?
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    It's absolutely possible to buy property on welfare. No mortage necessary.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!!

    For Seattle, your $50K is off by a factor of 4 for cheap houses.

    You are just WILDLY out of touch with reality.
     
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me, but in what reality are poor people expecting to buy property in the most expensive places on earth?

    Do you have to narrow and restrict your gaze to this fantastical scenario (that poor people are looking to buy property in Seattle), to allow the terrible belief that it's okay to blow a million bucks when you're poor, to exist in your head?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  10. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I understand that people are different and have different circumstances.
    I don't think you don't understand that people can change themselves, adapt to or change or improve their circumstances- and that is called life; standing on your own two feet instead of someone else's.

    When an dependent man and an independent man are walking on the same path and come to a mud hole- the independent man keeps going- through it or around it. The dependent man stops and expects an independent man to carry him across. Difference in people. Some see circumstances as a barrier, some as an excuse, some as a challenge. There will always be poverty and wealth, success and failure-
    because people are different, and limit themselves. We all have the same hardware and potential- but the software we choose to believe in makes all the difference.
    I refuse to do for a person what they refuse to do for themselves.
     
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  11. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    How does he get 50 thou?
     
  12. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Except that's not happening.
     
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's exactly what's happening. When you rent for your entire life, you pay out many hundreds of thousands of dollars, and have nothing to show for it. That money is gone forever. You don't own anything more than you had at the start, but your landlord has been made a million dollars richer.
     
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  14. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I have an apartment to live in instead of being homeless.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    How does who get it? Every individual will have a different approach, obviously. What works for one person, won't for another. Each of us has to find a way that works for us.

    For some - like my own kids - it will be saving almost every cent they make from day one of their first part-time job in high school. By the time they've finished university, they've been saving a couple of hundred dollars a week for about eight years. Work out what that amounts to, and it's easy to see just how easy it is to find the money - even if you only earn a very modest income. And the reason my kids could do that is because we own our property outright - no one has to pay rent.

    Other - perhaps older - people might want to team up with family to cut costs and thus save more, and ultimately buy a property together. If three or four people put aside half of what they earn for a few years, and commit to living very frugally for the duration, even on welfare that will result in enough to buy a $50k property .. if not something quite a bit better.

    Others still might prefer to just go the ultra frugal route. Move home with parents, or live in a van or something (anything which doesn't involve paying rent - or at least anything more than minimal rent), and curb all expendure which isn't 100% necessary. Live on rice & beans, drink only water, and have no habits or hobbies which cost money.

    There are as many ways to avoid spending, as there are people. There is no single answer. Which tells you that when someone finds every possible option 'too difficult', you know they're not serious.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You own it? You'll have the full rights to the title at the end of your life, and can then sell at great profit?
     
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  17. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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  18. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Nope.
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    So you have to keep paying rent til you die. Exactly my point.

    In the meantime, you (general you, not necessarily you personally) will leave nothing for your children, secure no platform for their progress - preferring instead to line the pockets of some random landlord, just so you don't have to do the hard yards of putting together a lump sum.
     
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  20. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    One thing you seem to be ignoring is that you don't just buy a house and that's it. It requires UPKEEP which costs money.
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Huh? In my state, being homeless is the job. How does being homeless and being employed full time work?
     
  22. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Think about this. Of course a house has upkeep. So does a person. Everything alive has to maintain itself.
    It's not an unfair burden that others impose on you; you are not a victim. You accept it for yourself when you decide you want to live in a house instead of a tent or under a rock.
    The idea that has become popular with the left is that somebody owes you a comfortable life- which means somebody else has to give up part of what they have earned so you can have something you aren't willing to earn. Insures that ultimately, nobody will have anything.
     
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  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    $500/mo * 12 mo/yr * 45 yrs = $270,000

    To pay out $1M over a life time of rent, one would have to pay about $1800/mo for rent. Very very few, if ANY pay $1800/mo for rent.
     
  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What's a comfortable living? Most on welfare only have the bare minimums to living.
     
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  25. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An acquaintance of mine who I've known for about 10 years is in his mid 60s and has been a renter his entire life. He lived in the same rent house for 25 of his adult years. I sure wish I knew he was going to do that. I absolutely would have bought a house and let him pay the mortgage for me, and I would reap the rewards of the equity.
     
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