Is this Human?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Bowerbird, Sep 17, 2021.

?

Is this human

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    29.4%
  2. No

    12 vote(s)
    70.6%
  1. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Potentials do not have rights. Every 16-18 year old was once a 2 year old, but this does not mean that a 2 year old is of the age of consent. Every dead person was once newborn, but this does not mean that every newborn is dead. Yoyr case is not only weak, but also is it one with horrific implications.

    Birth is indeed not "magical" and no one in the pro-abortion camp is claiming that. Belief in magic is more common in the anti-abortion camp since they tend to claim that a fetus has rights because "God" creates a "soul" with some form of a bibbidi bobbidi boo the moment the sperm hits the egg.

    What happens at birth that is so major is that the newborn is now a physically individuated, fully developed human being who can start to use and develop their own judgement and reason in the social contexts of the real world.

    Either you are a closeted religionist too scared of having your cover blown knowing it will illegitimise your position or you are a political tribalist only interested in the "science" that confirms your political convictions. It is also possible that you are just a disintegrated thinker with misunderstandings and contradictions or a combination of all of the above.

    Looking at it from a perspective of Individual Rights, there is simply no way of arguing that a fetus should have rights and that these rights should preceede those of the unwillingly pregnant woman. Rights cannot be in conflict with one another and a fetus lacks all of the faculties that neccesitates rights. A woman has no obligation to sacrifice her life for the life of a mere pitential, making that argument is just truly, truly, truly monstrous.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
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  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is nothing "potential" once the human life has been created. My case is as strong as the science which again remains unrefuted. We are CREATED with the right to life, not the right to vote, not the right to drink alcohol. The right to LIFE.

    Yes that is the claim, that you are not a human being until you are born and that is fallacious nonsense. And my arguments are not religious faith based so why do you inject that here?

    The life at conception is unique and an individual as the science as I have posted fully explains. And a baby just born is not "fully develop" that life just as your did will continue to "develop"

    I have no religious faith so your argument fails on it's face, my argument is solely based on the science and since your is not which are you a closeted religionist or a political trebliest?

    What it the HIGHEST individual right?
     
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well strictly speaking we are talking HUMAN life here, a human being.

    FYI claiming someone is ignorant about something will get the mods to delete your post. Science says the life in the womb from conception is a human, a human life. Stop with all your conjecture and refute that WITH THE SCIENCE.

    They apply to all human beings.


    No it literally is not, Biology 101 as I have previously cited.
     
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Can you be a little more specific as in what do you claim I do not know about the biology and stop making fallacious claims as to what I think I have told you quite clearly what I think and those are the points I will address.
     
  5. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh ffs ... enough of your utter nonsense and stubborn misinterpretation of my posts. Now you're just being pompous and holier-than-thou.

    No one, and I do mean NO ONE, is claiming "a right to kill that human being" because a fetus that is not viable is not a human being. Considering it to be a human baby at conception is not science, it's emotion.

    You and I will never convince each other of anything here, so I'm done.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
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  6. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    You did not answer What are rights and what necessitates them?

    It is a developing human. Yes.
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    RIGHT THERE is where you show no knowledge at all about what birth entails.

    No, there is no "magic" but the fetus becomes detached from the woman it's in and many physical changes occur....which you seem to deny...
     
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  8. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Oh, DO refute Ritter's:

    """"Looking at it from a perspective of Individual Rights, there is simply no way of arguing that a fetus should have rights and that these rights should preceede those of the unwillingly pregnant woman. Rights cannot be in conflict with one another and a fetus lacks all of the faculties that neccesitates rights. A woman has no obligation to sacrifice her life for the life of a mere pitential, making that argument is just truly, truly, truly monstrous."""
     
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  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The plancenta becomes detached from the mother, so what? That doesn't define ones humanity.
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What it the HIGHEST individual right?
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Humans develop throughout their lives. If you some discussion of what are rights start a thread, are you denying there is a right to life?
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes it is a human as I have shown. We develop all our lives from one stage to another.
     
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is you who is posting the nonsense such as your attempt to equate leftovers in the fridge. And I have shown over and over you are a human being from the moment you are conceived. I have shown that by the science and what is taught in the textbooks and you nor anyone else has refuted with anything other than misinformed opinions NOT back by ANY science. Nothing pompous or holier-than-thou about the science that would be on your side and the post directed at me.

    Taking Care of You and Your Baby While You’re Pregnant
    It’s important to take care of your baby, even before he or she is born. You can do this by living a healthy lifestyle and keeping doctor’s appointments while you’re pregnant. This is called prenatal care. You’re more likely to have a healthy birth if you maintain a healthy pregnancy.
    https://familydoctor.org/taking-care-of-you-and-your-baby-while-youre-pregnant/


    I'm pregnant. What should I do — or not do — to take care of myself and my unborn baby?
    https://www.womenshealth.gov/a-z-topics/prenatal-care

    "These early weeks are a time to make healthy choices and to eat the best foods for you and your baby."
    https://myhealth.alberta.ca/Health/aftercareinformation/pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=zy1780

    Pregnancy care
    Getting good care before, during, and after your pregnancy is very important. It can help your baby grow and develop and keep you both healthy. It is the best way to be sure your little one gets a head start on a healthy life.
    https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/007214.htm

    Those are medical and government health websites argue with them.
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Oh, DO refute Ritter's:

    """"Looking at it from a perspective of Individual Rights, there is simply no way of arguing that a fetus should have rights and that these rights should preceede those of the unwillingly pregnant woman. Rights cannot be in conflict with one another and a fetus lacks all of the faculties that neccesitates rights. A woman has no obligation to sacrifice her life for the life of a mere pitential, making that argument is just truly, truly, truly monstrous."""


    :) :) I KNEW you couldn't refute it...:nana::nana:..and the right to life is the highest right, a right you wish to deny women...
     
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  15. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Bingo! Which is why, for example, children do not have the same rights as adults. The potential is not the actual and potentials do not have rights.

    I hate to break it to, but every single thread about abortion is about rights.

    There is a right to life and since I actually understand what that means, I kniw for a fact that it does not apply to "the unborn".

    Why do you think a fetus has the right to life and what do you believe the right to life means?
     
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  16. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    So, with that logic every sperm and egg is a life too. Scientist agree a baby is created when those two meet. All of us were created that way, so is every period and every ejaculation not resulting in pregnancy murder too now?

    Your argument is really ridiculous.
     
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  17. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Do you even know what Individual Rights are? And why are you asking this when you just said I should start a thread about rights if I want to discuss rights? :D
     
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  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    I NEVER said it did.

    But it's a lot more complicated than just sliding out the birth canal which you'd know IF you knew science.

    Here's just some changes:
    Home
    Medical Encyclopedia
    Changes in the newborn at birth

    Changes in the newborn at birth refer to the changes an infant's body undergoes to adapt to life outside the womb.

    Information
    LUNGS, HEART, AND BLOOD VESSELS

    The mother's placenta helps the baby "breathe" while it is growing in the womb. Oxygen and carbon dioxide flow through the blood in the placenta. Most of it goes to the heart and flows through the baby's body.

    At birth, the baby's lungs are filled with fluid. They are not inflated. The baby takes the first breath within about 10 seconds after delivery. This breath sounds like a gasp, as the newborn's central nervous system reacts to the sudden change in temperature and environment.

    Once the baby takes the first breath, a number of changes occur in the infant's lungs and circulatory system:

    • Increased oxygen in the lungs causes a decrease in blood flow resistance to the lungs.
    • Blood flow resistance of the baby's blood vessels also increases.
    • Fluid drains or is absorbed from the respiratory system.
    • The lungs inflate and begin working on their own, moving oxygen into the bloodstream and removing carbon dioxide by breathing out (exhalation).
    BODY TEMPERATURE

    A developing baby produces about twice as much heat as an adult. A small amount of heat is removed through the developing baby's skin, the amniotic fluid, and the uterine wall.

    After delivery, the newborn begins to lose heat. Receptors on the baby's skin send messages to the brain that the baby's body is cold. The baby's body creates heat by burning stores of brown fat, a type of fat found only in fetuses and newborns. Newborns are rarely seen to shiver.

    LIVER

    In the baby, the liver acts as a storage site for sugar (glycogen) and iron. When the baby is born, the liver has various functions:

    • It produces substances that help the blood to clot.
    • It begins breaking down waste products such as excess red blood cells.
    • It produces a protein that helps break down bilirubin. If the baby's body does not properly break down bilirubin, it can lead to newborn jaundice.
    GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT

    A baby's gastrointestinal system doesn't fully function until after birth.

    In late pregnancy, the baby produces a tarry green or black waste substance called meconium. Meconium is the medical term for the newborn infant's first stools. Meconium is composed of amniotic fluid, mucus, lanugo (the fine hair that covers the baby's body), bile, and cells that have been shed from the skin and intestinal tract. In some cases, the baby passes stools (meconium) while still inside the uterus.

    URINARY SYSTEM

    The developing baby's kidneys begin producing urine by 9 to 12 weeks into the pregnancy. After birth, the newborn will usually urinate within the first 24 hours of life. The kidneys become able to maintain the body's fluid and electrolyte balance.

    The rate at which blood filters through the kidneys (glomerular filtration rate) increases sharply after birth and in the first 2 weeks of life. Still, it takes some time for the kidneys to get up to speed. Newborns have less ability to remove excess salt (sodium) or to concentrate or dilute the urine compared to adults. This ability improves over time.

    IMMUNE SYSTEM

    The immune system begins to develop in the baby, and continues to mature through the child's first few years of life. The womb is a relatively sterile environment. But as soon as the baby is born, they are exposed to a variety of bacteria and other potential disease-causing substances. Although newborn infants are more vulnerable to infection, their immune system can respond to infectious organisms.

    Newborns do carry some antibodies from their mother, which provide protection against infection. Breastfeeding also helps improve a newborn's immunity.
     
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  19. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    OK and?
     
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  20. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No matter how much truth you tell, you will never get through.

    :wall:

    It all boils down to the Roe v Wade decision, which, contrary to popular belief, is not actually about abortion, it's about our individual right to complete and utter privacy in accordance with the 4th Amendment, and that privacy includes a woman's womb. The restrictive laws that states like Texas are trying to implement are in violation of that, and of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment, which is also part of the Roe v Wade decision. But even if I pist links to all of that here, it will fall on obviously deaf ears.

    We can't cure stupid, but ignorance in the age of information is a choice.
     
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  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I use our common normal use language your objections are specious.
     
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    YES we develop THOUGHOUT our lives especially in our younger years, what's your point. Nothing magic happens that turns us into a human being at birth.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes rights of the individual. Do you know what are inherent rights?

    What it the HIGHEST individual right?
     
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  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Go learn the difference between haploid and diploid cells and what are gametes. Biology 101. Scientist agree that a new human being is created when the two successfully complete a conception and a new human being is created.

    YOUR argument is complete ridiculous and without any basis in science.
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Potential what? Do children have a right to life? Are children human beings who by their creation have that inherent right to life?

    We are created with our inherent right to life if you don't understand that statement I can't help you. It is not granted by law, it is not granted by the Constitution. I know that for a fact do you?
     

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