Election Fraud Deniers Will Have a Hard Time Shrugging Off This ‘Never-Before-Seen Surveillance Vide

It has happened before to both Bush 41 and 43. Americans are fickle especially independents.

I see the polls as bad for Trump. The same voters who preferred Biden over Trump hate Biden.

 

There was a 2 million vote disparity between Trump and other republicans in elections that day. Of course the entire house was up for election and 33 senate seats.

In those other federal elections democrat candidates got 5 million more votes than republicans. But Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump. So that proves that Trump was less liked than republicans in general.

 

To remind people there were recounts. Recounts in Dane and Milwaukee counties in Wisconsin and hand recounts in the entire state of Georgia and a hand recount in Maricopa county Arizona.

None of these recounts changed anything.

While I believe fraud happened nobody can quantify it to prove anything. I just think it is unproductive for republicans to keep beating this dead horse.

 

They are totally fine with the fact that they stole the election.

 

That’s easy. There were many ballots across the battleground states that were marked only for the Presidential election and not for any other race.

 

Exactly.

 

I do not believe that.

You are aware that the election turned out almost exactly the way the polls indicated right? A CNBC poll of Trump vs Biden, no third party candidates had Biden up by 10 points. That was 2 days before the election. Composite polls showed Biden

Yes Covid, mail in ballots and the unfairness of the media and social media helped Biden. Can't do anything about it.

 

[Snip]
Among the records that Donald Trump’s lawyers tried to shield from Jan. 6 investigators are a draft executive order that would have directed the defense secretary to seize voting machines and a document titled “Remarks on National Healing."
[End]

If this was all on the up & up, why was Trump & his lawyers trying to hide it?

[Snip]
...It’s not clear who wrote either document. But the draft executive order is dated Dec. 16, 2020, and is consistent with proposals that lawyer Sidney Powell made to the then-president. On Dec. 18, 2020, Powell, former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn, former Trump administration lawyer Emily Newman, and former Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne met with Trump in the Oval Office.

In that meeting, Powell urged Trump to seize voting machines and to appoint her as a special counsel to investigate the election, according to Axios...

The order empowers the defense secretary to “seize, collect, retain and analyze all machines, equipment, electronically stored information, and material records required for retention under” a U.S. law that relates to preservation of election records. It also cites a lawsuit filed in 2017 against Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

Additionally, the draft order would have given the defense secretary 60 days to write an assessment of the 2020 election. That suggests it could have been a gambit to keep Trump in power until at least mid-February of 2021.

[The full text of the never-issued executive order can be read here.]

It opens by citing a host of presidential authorities to permit the steps that Trump would take, including the Constitution and Executive Order 12333, a well-known order governing the intelligence community. But the draft executive order also cites two classified documents: National Security Presidential Memoranda 13 and 21.

The existence of the first of those memoranda is publicly known, but the existence of the second has not been previously reported. NSPM 13 governs the Pentagon’s offensive cyber operations. According to a person with knowledge of the memoranda, 21 makes small adjustments to 13, and the two documents are viewed within the executive branch as a pair.

The fact that the draft executive order’s author knew about the existence of Memorandum 21 suggests that they had access to information about sensitive government secrets, the person told POLITICO.

The draft order also greenlit “the appointment of a Special Counsel to oversee this operation and institute all criminal and civil proceedings as appropriate based on the evidence collected and provided all resources necessary to carry out her
duties consistent with federal laws and the Constitution.”

[End]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/news/2022/01/21/read-the-never-issued-trump-order-that-would-have-seized-voting-machines-527572?_amp=true

 

Trump is hated by half the country. I mean really hated. They will never like him and that is not a good starting point for an election.

Trump motivated people to vote against him at least as much as he motives people to vote for him.

He lost independents 2-1 54-26. That is disaster! They were 41% of the vote.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020

In my lifetime I have never seen an election like this where you did not need a candidate on the democrat side. It was those who liked Trump vs those who hate him.

Jan 6th has only hurt his chances of ever winning a national election which is why republican need to find somebody else for 2024.

 

I’m really looking forward to the movie 2000 mules

 

This never happened meaning Trump did not do it. Your own article states that some of his advisers were for this. So why didn’t it happen? Because of the man making the decisions. He never signed it. Even if true why does it matter because it literally never happened.

 

And yet the GOP is completely oblivious to this fact. If they chose Trump as their horse again, he will get his ass whooped yet again.

 

Fraud couldn't be proven by state election officials under pandemic rules elections. For one, state election agencies were tasked to 'verify' elections when there's no way state election agencies could verify pandemic rules election results because many votes were cast via drop boxes, the Internet, etc., before state election officials were able to verify them.

As I've posted many times, asking state election officials to verify pandemic rules elections would be asking ICE under the Biden Administration to verify how many illegals have entered into the US (and where in the US have they been shipped)...ICE can't verify how many illegals have entered the US during the Biden Administration and state election officials can't verify the results of pandemic rules elections.

Besides, state election officials are elected and there's this incentive to say their state elections are free and fair so state election officials can be reelected and, well, any state election official who says their election results aren't free and fair won't be reelected.

Fraud can be prevented during pandemic rules elections. It's just that a third party needs to forensically examine each ballot.
Besides, isn't the main reason for a vote to ensure that the vote is democratic, er, meaning one eligible voter one vote?

 

A democratic election is not a dead horse, er, a democratic election total for president in each state is not a dead horse. The vote is the only semblance of democracy in American government. Congresscritters don't care about democracy.

 

The order would not have been written up, were he not considering it. In fact, from what I've heard, it was Trump, himself, who was trying to solicit different sources for help in this regard, including through the writing of legal opinions. I'll give you that Trump didn't go through with it, but not that the reason he didn't pull the trigger, had anything to do with his feeling that it wasn't the "right" thing to do. He clearly operates for what he believes are his own best interests, so he must have judged, based on the reactions he was getting, even within his own circle, that he wouldn't be able to get away with it, that there would be too great of a backlash; a leader doesn't earn integrity- points, for a decision like that.

 

People need to vote using their brains next time...

 

So someone drafted some crap and printed it out. It has no force of law. Without 270 ECV certified, Trump's term ended at noon on Jan 20th.

Amendment 20, Section 1.

"The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January."

Article V describes the two processes for modifying the constitution and a presidential order is not one of them.

 

He wasn't trying to "modify the Constitution," he was looking for a way to throw out, or call into serious question, the vote counts, so as to wrest the Presidency away from the rightful winner, chosen by the voters.

 

You cannot just prove that fraud took place or may have taken place. You have to quantify in real numbers how many votes were effected and if that was enough to change a result. They will never be able to do that.

 

I agree. Both in the general election and the primaries. That will mean no more Bidens and also no more Trumps. I'm 100% okay with that and it's 100% needed.

 

I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. IMO, the number one goal of an election is to have a democratic, free and fair election because elections are the only semblance of democracy in US government and possibly short-circuiting that democracy with a pandemic rules election makes US government even that much less of a democratic government.

Too many are treating any election (the 2020 presidential election, for example) as the goal of an election. A pandemic rules election of 2020 was the first election (and most hopefully the last for democracy's sake) of its kind in the US...ever.
The results of a pandemic rules election cannot be verified unless there is a forensic examination of all ballots preferably by a third party and not by state election commissions who're elected to office.

Do you get it? We had the first pandemic rules election in the history of elections in the US with the 2020 election.
Ballots were cast at ballot boxes strewn throughout the voting area. Ballots were cast online. Ballots were cast without any observers watching.
State election observers are unable to adequately verify the validity of a ballot before the ballot was cast which essentially nullified the state election official of being able to verify election results.

Let me go at this a different way: There was never any proof that the Trump campaign worked with Russians to interfere in the 20106 election yet the investigation proceeded for 2+ years. Was it important to investigate the Trump campaign w/o any evidence? Yes. BTW, was it important to drop the Trump campaign investigation when it was evident there was no Trump campaign involvement to interfere in the 2016 election? Yes...So, why wasn't the Trump campaign investigation dropped when there was no proof of Trump campaign interference?

The final point I'm trying to make is: some things need to be investigated whether there's evidence or not. For example, did the winning president in the 2016 have an undue assist from a foreign country? For example, was the 2020 presidential election free and fair?

 

Success in politics is winning the next election not obsessing about the last. Obviously republicans can get elected even in non red states it happened in Virginia and the democrat candidate for governor was the ultimate insider. The fact that Youngkin and Sears could win in a state that Trump lost by 10 points tells you that Trump is not a viable candidate for 2024.

 

Obsessing over whether the American public has any say in their government is crucial to me. At least, I will stay vigilant.

 

The majority of the country does not agree with you. So go ahead with your Trump worship and trying to downsize the republican party. The democrats will be most appreciative.

Herschel Walker running in Georgia is a prime example. Handpicked by Trump he is a terrible candidate who will probably lose giving the democrats that senate seat for another 6 years.

 

You're more worried about Trump worship, downsizing the GOP and saving Ukraine than you are about worrying about our borders or our fragile and ever fleeting democracy.