Russia Declares War on Ukraine<<MOD WARNING>>

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Bill Carson, Feb 23, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,677
    Likes Received:
    27,208
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    In fact, Ukraine being a breadbasket country, it could greatly benefit the EU in terms of grain production.
     
    gnoib, Statistikhengst and Ddyad like this.
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,485
    Likes Received:
    25,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Russian people have been effectively disarmed.

    https://www.guns.com/news/2018/10/26/putin-says-russia-needs-stronger-gun-restrictions
     
  3. Jazep

    Jazep Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    ---
    Why pretend to be a moron? A rocket weighing 200 tons in a fixed shaft and a rocket weighing 6 tons in a car are the same for you.
    --
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,677
    Likes Received:
    27,208
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And an anti-air system is the same in your mind as a nuclear surface-to-surface system.
     
    Statistikhengst likes this.
  5. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,121
    Likes Received:
    8,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don’t agree.
    Restrictions to freedom of speech tend to assist corrupt officials.
    Unlike the way it is in Russia, in Ukraine unrestricted freedom of speech results in many journalistic investigations that result in corrupt officials being imprisoned or, at least, shamed into leaving their posts and country. This translates to better transparency and accountability. Because of this alone one can state with high degree of confidence that corruption in Russia is a lot worse than in Ukraine.
    I know that Russians hate to be rated below Ukrainians on any measure, but that’s just the truth.
    Also - don’t try to argue against this by saying that currently the freedom of speech is severely restricted in Ukraine - that’s normal for a country that is in a legal state of war. I wouldn’t imagine a pro-Russian TV or politicians existing in the U.S. if we had a real hot war with each other. Under normal circumstances, freedoms in Ukraine are, by far, much better than what Russians have, which results in better governmental transparency.
     
    gnoib and Statistikhengst like this.
  6. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,121
    Likes Received:
    8,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And not a single shred of credible evidence to these claims. :lol:
     
    bigfella and Statistikhengst like this.
  7. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    17,195
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That list was written by whites. Uk is the most corrupt nation on earth as it launders the most money.
     
  8. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    10,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting take. I've never been to Russia so I can't verify one way or another. I found most of the Russians that I have met abroad to be likeable outside the tacky resorts.
     
  9. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    17,195
    Likes Received:
    2,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I'm sure the German agri companies like Monsanto had invested heavily in Ukraine. I'm also sure the mafia families in Ukraine made a killing when they bought up the farms of the millions who were forced to leave for Russia after the coup and then resold them to the multi national agri corporations.

    Hopefully with the Russian takeover, the lands will go back to their rightful owners.
     
    Esau and Bill Carson like this.
  11. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2018
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ddyad likes this.
  12. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    10,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I hear the invaders are already engaging in a bit of grain re-diztribuzion:
     
  13. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The war is over. Russia won, or haven't you heard? Next step Odessa.
     
  14. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    891
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  15. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    891
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Tend to agree.
     
  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,677
    Likes Received:
    27,208
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I believe, from what I saw of her interview, that she was talking about corruption there in the 2008 time frame, and of course that corruption does not automatically make Ukraine undemocratic. Every country has corruption and corruption can take many forms.
     
    gnoib likes this.
  17. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    891
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    True, but for that it is not necessary to take Ukraine in the EU.
     
  18. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,677
    Likes Received:
    27,208
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You haven't made a good case for why they should not be in the EU so far. If nothing else, it would help them to overcome corruption anyway. They should have something to aspire to and a hopeful path forward. I'm sure Romania, for instance, was in no better shape when it joined.
     
    gnoib likes this.
  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Vladimir Putin is a reflection of the Russian people. If Vladimir Putin didn't give the people what they wanted, he wouldn't have survived very long. Yet he did survive and restored a country ravaged by criminals who were financed by foreign banks, and gave it back to the Russian people.

    The American people should be so lucky.


    Washington and Collective West
    arrogance - lies - corruption - wars - greed

    hypocrisy - immorality - thievery - blackmail

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    R U S S I A
     
  20. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    16,828
    Likes Received:
    19,376
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Bingo. Spot-on.
     
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,677
    Likes Received:
    27,208
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ukraine War: the war within a war for Snake Island


    Defence and Security Analyst Professor Michael Clarke explains why the Russians are fighting for control of the small Snake Island in the Black Sea.​


    By the way, from what I saw today in this video from Denys Davydov:



    ... Snake Island will be in range of Ukraine's spiffy new MLRS rockets. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2022
    Melb_muser likes this.
  22. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    16,828
    Likes Received:
    19,376
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think you mean "medicines".
     
    vis likes this.
  23. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    10,841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Of course it is, Jeanette...Putin can rest easy now and go back to his silk sheets.

    [​IMG]
     
    Thedimon, Statistikhengst and Ddyad like this.
  24. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,485
    Likes Received:
    25,454
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or national socialism, which always seems to be the end game of Big Government.
     
  25. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    6,871
    Likes Received:
    2,233
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I couldn't care less about Belarus or Russian political system. Only a completely ignorant person can possibly claim that Ukraine is a democratic state. It is not. It is a corrupted and totalitarian state.

    The real Zelensky: from celebrity populist to unpopular Pinochet-style neoliberal

    https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/28/zelensky-celebrity-populist-pinochet-neoliberal/

    How has Zelensky’s record been on democracy – freedom of speech and press, political pluralism and treatment of different political parties? How does it compare to past presidents of post-Soviet Ukraine?

    I agree with Jodi Dean who argues that democracy is a neoliberal fantasy in a sense that it cannot exist in neoliberal systems of government controlled not by people but by supranational institutions. As mentioned earlier, this became especially evident after the Maidan when foreign ministers were appointed by these institutions to present their interests in Ukraine. However, in his reforming zeal, Zelensky went further. In early February 2021, first three oppositional television channels—NewsOne, Zik, and 112 Ukraine—were shut down. Another oppositional channel Nash was banned in the beginning of 2022, before the beginning of the war. After the war broke out, in March, dozens of independent journalists, bloggers, and analysts were arrested; most of them are of leftist views. In April, television channels of right-wing leaning—Channel 5 and Pryamiy—were shut down as well. Moreover, Zelensky signed a decree obliging all Ukrainian channels to broadcast a single telethon, presenting only one pro-governmental view on the war.

    All these developments are unprecedented for the history of independent Ukraine. Zelensky’s proponents argue that all the arrests and media bans should be written off for military expediency, ignoring the fact that the first media closures happened one year before the Russian invasion. As for me, Zelensky only uses this war to strengthen dictatorial tendencies within his regime of government, which started being formed right after Zelensky came to power—when he created a party machine to control the parliament and rubber-stamp neoliberal reforms without regard to public mood.

    The National Security and Defense Council (NSDC) was used by Zelensky in 2021 to sanction certain people – mostly political rivals. Can you explain what the NSDC is and why Zelensky was doing it and whether it was legal or not.
    After his popular support plummeted in 2021, Zelensky launched the unconstitutional process of extrajudicial sanctions against his political opponents, imposed by National Security and Defense Council (NSDC). These sanctions involved the extrajudicial seizure of property without any evidence of illegal activities of the relevant individuals and legal entities. Among the first to be sanctioned by the NSDC were two parliamentary deputies from the Opposition Platform “For Life” (OPZZh)—Victor Medvedchuk (later arrested and shown on TV with his face beaten up after interrogation) and Taras Kozak (managed to escape from Ukraine), as well as members of their families. This happened in February 2021; in March 2022, 11 oppositional parties were banned. The decisions to ban oppositional parties and sanction oppositional leaders were taken by NSDC; they were put into effect by presidential decrees.

    The Constitution of Ukraine states that The Council of National Security and Defense is a coordinating body: it “co-ordinates and controls the activity of bodies of executive power in the sphere of national security and defense.” This has nothing to do with prosecuting political opponents and confiscating their property—something NSDC has been doing since 2021. It goes without saying that this know-how of Zelensky’s regime is unconstitutional—only courts may decide on who is guilty or not and confiscate property. But the problem is that Ukrainian courts turned out to be unprepared to serve as Zelensky’s puppets. After the head of Ukraine’s Constitutional Court Oleksandr Tupytskyi called Zelensky’s unconstitutional reforms a “coup,” Zelensky had nothing to do but to rely on NSDC to push forward his unpopular policies. What about the “dissident” Tupytskyi? On March 27, 2021—also in violation of the Ukrainian Constitution—Zelensky signed a decree canceling his appointment as a judge of the court.

    Under Stalin’s rule, the People’s Commissariat of Internal Affairs (NKVD) created “troikas” to issue sentences to people after simplified, speedy investigations and without a public and fair trial. What we observe in the case of NSDC is a very similar development, only NSDC unconstitutional trials have a bigger number of participants—all the key figures of the state, including the president, the prime minister, the head of Ukrainian security service, prosecutor general of Ukraine, etc. One NSDC meeting can decide destinies of hundreds of people. In June 2021 alone, Zelensky put into effect a NSDC decision to impose sanctions against 538 individuals and 540 companies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2022
    Bill Carson, Jeannette and vis like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page