Germany Says 'Nein' On Tanks At Allies' Big Ramstein Meeting

We don't need 'every journalist' to write those stories. I think you can spare a few to cover how Ukrainians treat those who they suspect of collaborating with the Russians - unless you believe they are treating them better than say the French Resistance, or the Polish, or the Chinese, or Syrians etc once there is some territory recovered post invasion. If you don't think there is cruelty, violence, and inhumanity happening on both sides of this conflict by both military and civilians, you are a fool. If you don't think the world deserves to know about those acts, you are a total Ukrainian partisan.

 

Yes. Yes. I heard about it.

 

Sad, isn't it. Always the same pattern.

They know that modern MBTs are yet another weapons system capable of doing them serious damage, so they pretend it means nothing. Pathetic.

No doubt they will play the same game when it is ATACMS, F-16s or more. Ukraine is rapidly on the way to being a NATO standard army in every way. The Putinbots know they can't beat that, so they pretend it isn't an issue (even if they once claimed Russian setbacks were because Ukraine was a 'NATO army').

 

Just to be crystal clear here, I continue to support the objectives of the Biden Administration and NATO, but that does not mean I believe that the coverage of this conflict in western media that is filtering through to American audiences, has been all that reliable and fair. After over a half of century of reading about warfare, I know when there are angles of one, stories that are not getting play.

 

No tank is indestructible. Ukraine is littered with destroyed orcish armor. But at least an Abrams won't send its turret into orbit if the ammo stores blow

 

You seemed to care......you started this thread,

So far, Russia lost more than it could have gained if it hadn't invade Ukraine, lives, money, public opinion, deterrence.....
Putin will have to completely break NATO and Conquer all of Ukraine to turn this into some kind of a win. so don't pretend this is nothing.

 

The West accepted it was "over" for a long time at the start of this war, it was caught by surprise Ukraine survived - true, a lot of it because Russia came in to scare and not destroy at the start.
They wouldn't have spent so much money into Ukraine if it was a done deal

 

Yes. The European and American orcs collected whatever military equipment they could from all over the world and sent it to Ukraine resist the Russian forces of Good. And now, as you said, "Ukraine is littered with destroyed orcish armor."
And challengers, leopards and abrams will soon join this pile of scrap metal.

 

Actually, my delusional friend, the vast majority of that scrap is from your army and its botched invasion attempts early in the war. How well a tank survives depends mainly on how it is used.

 

You have no response.

By the way, the orcish ambassador to Berlin doesn't seem so bullish:

2 hr 52 min ago
Germany's approval of Leopard 2 deliveries brings conflict "to a new level," says Russian ambassador to Berlin

From CNN's Radina Gigova

Russian Ambassador to Germany Sergei Nechaev, center, attends an event hosted by the Russian Embassy to commemorate the 77th anniversary of the Soviet victory against Nazi Germany on May 9, 2022 in Berlin, Germany. (Sean Gallup/Getty Images)

The decision by the German government to approve deliveries of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine is "extremely dangerous" and takes the conflict "to a new level of confrontation," Russian Ambassador to Germany Sergei Nechaev said in a statement Wednesday.

"This extremely dangerous decision brings the conflict to a new level of confrontation and runs counter to German politicians' statements about FRG's [Federal Republic of Germany] reluctance to be involved in such," Nechaev said.

"Unfortunately, this happens over and over again. Yet again, we can see that just like its closest partners, Germany is not interested in a diplomatic solution to the Ukrainian crisis, has its heart set on its permanent escalation and the unlimited pumping of the Kyiv regime with more and more deadly weapons. 'Red lines' are a thing of the past," he added.
Nechaev then brought up World War II, claiming that Germany "has forgotten the difficult path of postwar reconciliation between Russians and Germans," Nechaev said.

"Battle tanks marked with the German cross will again be sent to 'the Eastern front,' which inevitably will lead to the death of not only Russian soldiers, but the civilian population, too," he said.

Nechaev said that Berlin's decision comes as the 80th anniversary of the end of the Siege of Leningrad is observed.

The decision "destroys any remaining mutual trust, causes irreparable damage to Russian-German relations which are already in a pitiful state, and casts doubt on the possibility of their normalization in the near future," he said. ​

Live updates: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-1-25-23/index.html

Crimea river

 

Really? I think all Putin has to do is hang on to the territory that he has and it's a "win." Putin doesn't have to break NATO, just not lose the war.

 

Well this thread aged well...

 

Yeah. I called it on day 1 - this was always going to age poorly & quickly. Of course, it won't stop the Putinbots shovelling their manure. Its all they have.

 

There is nothing surprising in these deliveries.
German Foreign Minister Annalena Burbock openly declared that the West is waging war against Russia. The minister's statement was made at the PACE meeting on Tuesday.
Her words - “But the most important and decisive thing is that we do this together, and not play the game of “find the culprit” in Europe, because we are waging war against Russia, not against each other”

The tension builds up very quickly. And if you remember, I have repeatedly said that the world is heading towards a nuclear apocalypse. And this is not a figure of speech, but a modern reality.
Fortunately for the Russians, the Russian leadership also understands the inevitability of a nuclear war. And that's why the Russians produce missiles three times more than the US (the Russians produce missiles as much as the rest of the world). Putin spoke about this. And equipping Russian submarines with new Poseidon unmanned torpedoes and their constant combat duty off the coast of the most aggressive country is also obvious preparation.
And it's not about "Leopards", "Challengers", "Arams" and the like. You probably understand that neither 14, nor 40, nor 100 tanks solve anything at all.
The point is to escalate the conflict. And a possible response Russian to aggression.
For example, the Russians could finance and supply weapons to Islamic radicals. For example, today crazy idiots in Europe are tearing up carans, burning sacred books, drawing caricatures of the Muslim prophet... And given the Islamization of Europe, the Russians could help retribution. For example. Is not it?
I don't understand why they don't do this.

However, nuclear war means nuclear war. Russians, as everyone knows, will go to heaven, but the rest will simply die.

 

Lavarov and Putin and most of the Russian top gobs have all commented something along the lines of we are "not worried about these tanks and we will fry them"...Putin said something like that when he was at the factory the other day....the point being that they were saying "bring it on...we aren't scared...no biggy". So if Russia is not bothered about these tanks then why all the "nuclear" rhetoric and bluster again mate?? If the people at the top are so confident then why are you scurrying around the forum like a blue arsed fly rabbiting on about escalation and nuclear war?? Your boss has calmly said "bring it on" so there is no "tension" as you put it and no "escalation" just business as normal.....why the worry here?

 

Are you responding to anyone in particular? It would seem so. Can you please identify the individual you are responding to so we don't all get confused about who is talking to whom? THANKS!

 

huh....??.....it shows it in the forum....???




I guess I'm missing sommat here.....be you sassin me here boy!!

 

Can you write smaller so we can understand... BOY?

 

......

 

So how many tanks does Ukraine have now? They had about 2500 tanks at the start of the war but in November the Pentagon said they had lost 2800 tanks. I suppose that would include however many the former Warsaw Pact nations like Poland sent in the past year; T-90's and so forth. So now the US and Germany combined is sending 41 tanks. Not exactly a game changer. Ukraine probably needs 2000-3000 main battle tanks. So this seems like a publicity stunt to show the West's support of Ukraine.

 

Tell that to Saddam Hussein! This is a compromise, sending enough firepower to let the Ukrainians kick the Russians out but not enough that they might get ideas of attacking Russia itself.

 

I don't think 41 tanks are going to kick the Russians out, but I'm open to being surprised.

 

I am curious to see if the Russians have anything comparable to our Javalins .. which .. despite having a low hit/miss ratio .. have destroyed a hell of alot of Russian tanks.

 

Hi Mike.....it may not be just about numbers of tanks...the issue with Russian equipment in general and tank guns in particular is barrel wear...the more you fire a gun the more wear ergo the less accurate it becomes so the need to change the barrels assuming they have any becomes necessary. This is a problem with the Russians specially the T-72 where they are firing mostly OFS HE-frag rounds which are brutal on the barrels (for the pedants its the 3VOF36 round fired with an 3OF26 projectile) there has been some noise from Girkin on his channel which suggests that the Russians are having issues with barrel wear and likely running out....

The life of a T-72 barrel firing these rounds is about 1000 rounds and as these tank barrels were not new at the start of the conflict and more than half have been destroyed/abandoned the remaining tanks are taking on a considerably greater portion of the action; Russian logistics and weapons management is poor at best so maintaining accurate records of barrel usage is likely to be low to non-existent in this conflict. As a side issue Russian artillery batteries are having problems with supply of rounds so tanks are taking on a great portion of that which the artillery should have been doing thus exacerbating the problem.

It's more than likely probably the same with the Ukrainians as they have the same kit as the Russians so they are likely suffering the same problem. Thus having newer and better tanks are going to benefit the Ukrainians more. The Russians do not have the ability to maintain their weapons in anything like the manner in which they need as they simply do not have the numbers to rotate those tanks out of theater that need heavy overhaul. We have seen lately the Russian bringing in much older tanks which is probably nothing to do with the lack of vehicles but more to do with the gun barrels of their existing vehicles becoming ineffective.

So to cut a long story short its not numbers per se its the gun barrels.

 

Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.


This conflict can end in a single moment if your midget Hitler so.ple stopped invading to conquer another country.

Get out of Ukraine and all is well.