Senate votes to kill $400 billion student loan handout, sets up fifth Biden veto

Even worse, kids going into college are never told exactly what happens once you graduate, at least not in full detail. Freshman are generally not told about the student loans or any money you'll be paying back after you graduate, or even that there'll be jobs available so graduates end up having to pay off debts they were never warned about. Now of course, a lot of world changing events can happen in the span of 4 or 5 years so the jobs that may have been readily available coming in to college might be gone come graduation day.

 

You're comparing giving money to people that didn't earn it, to letting people keep more of their money.

Says all it needs to say.

 

So your ok w/ politicians lying to you as long as its a lie that you like? Says all it needs to say.

 

Where did I say Im ok with politicians lying to me?

Now your just out right making things up.

What I said was, giving people money they didn't earn is not nearly the same as letting people keep money they did earn.

Are you capable of disputing that?

 

I brought up that to vote is to vote for a lie of some sort, and you didn't touch on that. Instead you go on about what ones choice in lies says, seemingly forgetting that both positions are just political flaptrap. So I asked a question for clarification, and I'll do so again.

It seems your OK w/ politicians lying as long as you get what you want, is that true? Or do you believe that the tax cuts paid for themselves?

 

I call B$ on the $1000 for a textbook story. I am a university professor, and I have NEVER seen a textbook costing that much. For the classes I teach, the textbooks are in the $70-100 range, new, or you can get them for $30 used.

I totally agree that college is too expensive. But, if you want to make this point, at least use arguments that are not exaggerated. If every textbook was $1000, there would be student revolts.

 

No book for college costs 1k lmao. Talk about lying.

 

There are over 4,000 colleges and universities in America, all independent of each other.

I don't believe there is support for an idea that there is a conspiracy or a unification.

Whether sociology does harm is more of a personal or political position.

I'm not sure what you mean by college being "for the responsible". College does require responsibility. I'd say it is a place where responsibility can be improved or learned.

 

Academia doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and while these colleges exist independently they receive their sources from the same places. And culture is in drastic need of change.

However my position on sociology is simply an observation. When it’s not done with honest, and it usually isn’t, we end up with groups like blm believing a whole host of things that aren’t true.

And there is nothing responsible about wanting others to pay your self imposed debts.

 

I am surprised you have never heard of text books with access codes. They are sold as a bundle so buying a used book with expired codes does not save any money.

My son never purchased a text book and still crushed every exam. His classes did not require them.

 

I'm not sure you understand what free market means. Most universities are government institutions, and government's involvement in the financials of higher education make it the opposite of free market.

Nobody said it should. Now give me a good reason why its cost should be growing faster than anything else in the country.

I studied engineering. The first two years of any undergraduate engineering curriculum involve learning material that has been well understood and established for decades. That's immaterial anyway. Engineering departments at universities are some of the best at securing outside funding.

There was a time when living expenses were higher than tuition.

The whole funding thing is just a talking point son. In 2012 UCLA had 41000 students. Last year it had 47000. In 2012, the university's budget was $5.5 billion. In 2022, it was $10.5 billion. Enrollment increase by about 15%, the budget almost doubled.

The money they spent on employees went from less than $4 billion to almost $7 billion. If you're trying to sell me on the whole "poor underfunded university" narrative, it's not happening. Universities love money. So go ahead and justify that increase.

https://www.finance.ucla.edu/corporate-accounting/ucla-annual-financial-reports

Universities are white collar welfare. It's a place where those with college degrees but no real skills can go and find a job and benefits. Yale now has more employees than students.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/1...n-undergrads-thanks-to-a-mammoth-bureaucracy/

I'm guessing you can't produce a rational reason for any of this.

 

Yes - the race to the used book department!

 

OK, but you need to support this with an actual cost analysis using equivalent dollars.

And, worrying about Yale doesn't count. That is a hugely wealthy private. They can do what they want.

I really don't get a good feel for what you want.

 

Biden's plan was not to forgive anyone's full college debt-- which I would, also, have been against. It only forgave $10 k worth or, if one had initially qualified for the loan through a program for those of low income, then $20 k. IOW, this was only, retroactively, making college a little more affordable, for those people. Having affordable higher educational opportunities, in the opinion of many, is something that both benefits the country, as a whole, and so is a goal that they feel is in the purview of government, to help achieve.

On a related note, I just heard that New York State will begin offering free college tuition to all state residents, in its state colleges (some of which, I don't think are half bad).

 

Colleges and universities do not limit sources to some coordinated space.

In fact, if you are studying sociology there is significant emphasis on gaining an understanding of a variety of often conflicting philosophies that have existed since early writings.

The issue of funding education isn't about self imposed debts. It is about the need to ensure that a full cross section of America has the opportunity represented by education and that after gaining that education there is freedom to exercise that education.

 

There are about 1,600 public colleges and universities.

There are about 1,600 private colleges and universities that are not for profit.

There are about 1,000 colleges and universities that are FOR profit.

 

There's no need for cost analysis. There's zero chance that kind of budget growth is justified, but feel free to try. I'm not doing your research for you.

You're absolutely right. Did you see the part where I mentioned the human resources part of UCLA's budget. You'd have to be blind to not notice that it's not only limited to Yale, but here I'll even post ya another link.
https://www.usnews.com/education/articles/one-culprit-in-rising-college-costs

I'm pretty sure it's clear. I want to address why college is so expensive before addressing how to help students pay for it.

 

First, 80% of students attend public institutions. Secondly, are you trying to tell me loans aren't made to students attending private universities?

 

You're the one making claims that it can be done more cheaply.

And, your final paragraph points that out.

Note that your USNews article points to increased spending on mental health (which I think should be expanded to include healthcare in general), entertainment, intramural sports, academic support, workforce preparedness and initiatives focused on diversity, equity and inclusion.

These are features that are proven to improve success rate - and success should be the measure, right?

 

I really wish I had thought of doing that when I was a college freshman instead of forking over hundreds of dollars.

 

I don't believe your 80% number, because not even half of colleges and universities are public institutions.

Loans are made to students of private and public institutions. There have been issue with loaning money for kids to give to for-profit schools. I don't know where that stands right now.

 

rewriting history

the lack of regulations was the cause of the housing crash? Bush did not want the regulations....

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/worldbusiness/21iht-admin.4.18853088.html

"From his earliest days in office, Bush paired his belief that Americans do best when they own their own homes with his conviction that markets do best when left alone. Bush pushed hard to expand home ownership, especially among minority groups, an initiative that dovetailed with both his ambition to expand Republican appeal and the business interests of some of his biggest donors. But his housing policies and hands-off approach to regulation encouraged lax lending standards."

"Bush Ties Policy to Record Home Ownership" March 26, 2004

https://www.foxnews.com/story/bush-ties-policy-to-record-home-ownership

"Late last year, Bush signed the American Dream Down Payment Act (search) to help families that can afford monthly mortgage payments but not the down payment or closing costs associated with buying a house. The legislation authorizes $200 million a year in down payment assistance to at least 40,000 low-income families."

 

let them claim bk like a normal loan if the right wants to treat it like a normal loan

 

Are you suggesting that the credit scores also should be used when giving out the loans? Like a normal loan? Of course not because no one would be getting a loan. All that the right is asking for is that they pay their debt like they agreed to do. Nothing more.

 

Some colleges don't even have that service. Plus, not all books get sold back to be sold as used. Plus, one may not know the required book list until there isn't time to go searching for a used copy. You may not have missed anything.

I think the main point is that tuition is only a fraction of the cost of college.

I have a niece who was required to leave the campus living facility, because they don't keep residence open during some holidays. For a kid without parental financial support, stuff like that is a big deal. You're suddenly spending time figuring out how to live during the weeks of Christmas Break, etc.

Not every kid can buy a plane ticket home or pack up and rent a hotel and buy food.