Being Poor is NOT a virtue!

If you ask any politician pandering for their vote, the poor are the oppressed masses just struggling to survive as the evil rich corporations keep them under their economic thumbs. But let's examine the real reasons for poverty:

1. Drug and Alcohol abuse. They can't afford a pair of shoes for their children, but boy do they keep the booze flowing. Cigarettes, even a little Mary Jane? No problem! Because so much of their life is subsidized through welfare, food stamps, etc, they have the disposable income for these vices.

2. Abuse of credit Credit cards, payday advance loans, rent to own, these are all hallmarks of the spending habits of many "poor" people who just...had to have that flat screen TV. And cable. And cell phones. And a fancy car stereo.

3. Improper Priorities Every parent claims to love their children, but how many actually give up smoking and put that money into a college savings account? How many struggle to stay in a less than perfect marriage so as to provide an intact family for their child?

Take a $25k/yr salary and give it to irresponsible people and they will squander it away on drugs, booze, and cigarettes and live in squalor while shaking their fists at the "rich" who are clearly responsible for their lifestyle.

Take that same $25k/yr salary and give it to responsible parents and they will live frugally. Their home will be furnished modestly, their kids will always have clothes in good repair, they will have food, they tithe to their church and they will even have savings put away. If they qualify for food stamps, they will realize that the extra $400 can be put toward a college fund, or help pay off their mortgage faster.

Two families, same income, vastly different lifestyles. I am also a poor person who makes do with a small amount of income. Though my income is only $40k, I support my family well, I put away savings, I use credit responsibly, and I have no vices that cut into my family's prosperity. We are poor but we are not in poverty. My 8 year old even gets the latest XBox games for Christmas....paid for in cash. I ask nobody for a handout, I stay off of public assistance of any kind, I work hard and make do.

If I can do that, why can't others? Why are we subsidizing irresponsibility?

 

Or a recession happened ...

Look, what you're saying is that every individual is responsible for their economic and financial situation, right? If you're poor, it's because you made yourself poor, and if you're rich, it's because you made yourself rich. Would you agree with that?

 

What about those decent people who make $25k a year and don't do any of that? Why are they poor and in poverty? You seem to forget other reasons for poverty like "Underpaid" or "Health Problems" and "Has no opportunity to advance because education costs are skyrocketing" or "Got fired due to a bad recession and there's no jobs".


Plus your little attack ignores the fact that many places have vastly different costs of living. I can buy a house some places for freakin' $10,000 and a good one too. Other places it'll cost me $300,000 for a little terrible house.

 

The most telling factor in one's income level is...wait for it...THEIR PARENTS' INCOME LEVEL.

 

It's not that simple. There are plenty of poor people who are that way because of events beyond their control.

The government should give a helping hand to the poor but at the same time I don't believe in total welfarism because that creates dependency. People should not become dependent on the government for perpetual help.

There should be government "training wheel" type programs. Programs that help the poor get started on a job and support them until they can making a decent living on their own.

Do such programs exists?

 

No, I would say that one's LIVING CONDITION is due to their choice. We live in a country where nobody has to live in poverty if they act responsibly even with a small income.

 

Ah, yes. Making 15k a year allows you to live out of poverty after becoming seriously ill. Or is it irresponsible if someone allows cancerous cells to invade a part of their body?

 

This is just naive. There are plenty of examples where it's beyond the person's choices to choose their living conditions. You're ignorant for thinking otherwise.

HEALTH problems are often NOT a choice (lol...)... Employment issues are often NOT A CHOICE.

Get it through your thick skull. It's not like everyone has 100% control over their own destiny. Sometimes you have no choice. Sometimes you make the right choices but are screwed anyways. It's unintelligent to think everything is "right" or "wrong" in choices. Sometimes there's no right choice. Sometimes it's out of your hands. Sometimes you couldn't possibly know which choice is the right choice. Stuff happens. Very often it can be completely out of your control.

 

Liberalism lives, breeds, and survives on Poverty and (D)ependency......



The Poorest American Cities of 2008 (1-30)

1. Detroit, 33.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
2. Cleveland, 30.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
3. Buffalo, 30.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 43 years
4. Newark, 26.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 102 years
5. Miami, 25.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
6. Fresno, 25.5% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 13 years
7. Cincinnati, 25.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 29 years
8. Toledo, 24.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
9. El Paso, 24.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 120 years
10. Philadelphia, 24.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 57 years
11. Milwaukee, 23.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 49 years
12. Memphis, 23.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 133 years
13. St. Louis, 22.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 60 years
14. Dallas, 22.6% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 2 years
14 New Orleans,22.6% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 141 years
16. Atlanta, 22.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 130 years
17. Stockton, Calif., 21.6% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
18. Minneapolis, 21.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 35 years
19. Pittsburgh, 21.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 21 years
20. Tucson, 20.9% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
21. Chicago, 20.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 78 years
22. Columbus,Ohio 20.1% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 9 years
23. Long Beach, Calif., 19.8% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
24. Houston, 19.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 88 years
25 Los Angeles,19.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for "the last 8 years"
26. Baltimore, 19.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 42 years
27 San Antonio,19.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 38 years
28. Phoenix, 18.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 5 years
29. Boston, 18.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 79 years
30. Denver, 18.4% in poverty----Democrat Mayor for the last 46 years

......did anyone notice a pattern?.........
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All of the attributes mentioned by the OP easily could be attributed to someone within the middle or upper classes.

 

What causes drug abuse etc.? There's your answer. To say poor people are poor because of drug abuse is to ignore the reason as to why they use drugs (I would say mainly income inequality and lack of opportunity).

That aside (it wasn't my main point). Aren't you one of these people who believe in God? If so,

Prov. 29:7. The righteous is concerned for the rights of the poor; the wicked does not understand such concern.

1 John 3:17. But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

Lev. 19:15. "You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly." [This thread particularly violates this one]

Prov. 19:17. He who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, and He will repay him for his good deed.

Prov. 14:31. He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he who is gracious to the needy honors Him.

Religion, eh?

 

No, actually there aren't "plenty of examples". The cases of true hardship beyond one's control are few and far between. You're not fooling anyone trying to float the argument that most or a sizeable portion of poor people fit this senario.

Except when they are. I notice I have far fewer "employment issues" than some of my friends who seem to lose a lot of jobs and always have a story for how they were wronged in the process. As I said, the cases of true hardship beyond one's control..those are rare.

Get this through YOUR thick skull, we have absolute, 100% control over certain things in our life. The OP decries not exercising that control prudently. It has no bearing on things outside of our control.

Sometimes, sometimes. You take the rarities and make it the rule as all liberals do. Being responsible is no guarantee against calamity, but it does guarantee you'll be better prepared for it. Have you saved up for a rainy day?

Then I guess I'm unintelligent because I do think choices are either right or wrong.

The vicissitudes of life fall harshest on the imprudent and unprepared. If you can't understand this, then you'll never understand the OP and I can't help you.

 

"The Republicans live, breathe, and survive on the generosity of big government."

Turns out that the states that voted for John McCain in 2008 by and large get way more money in federal outlays than they pay in taxes.


While New Mexico, a blue state in 2008, ranked first, the states that finished 2-9 are all states that voted for John McCain: Mississippi, Alaska, Louisiana, West Virginia, North Dakota, Alabama, South Dakota, and Kentucky.

By contrast, the bottom 10 states (in order from 41-50) -- Colorado, New York, California, Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Nevada, and New Jersey -- all voted for Barack Obama. In fact, all but one of the states that pays more tax than receive in outlays -- Texas (35) -- voted for Obama.





Hmmmmmmm.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/617/

 

You mean like Rick Perry, the son of tenant farmers?

Nobody is born pre-destined to poverty in the United States. But it's not the govt's responsibility to pull them out of their circumstances.

 

Oh, society made them do drugs. Right.

I'm not impressed with the fact that the devil can quote scripture. But you did skip right past one of your own citations saying not to show partiality to the poor. Missed that, didn't you?

What I'm tired of is the Left pressing the claim that nobody is responsible for anything. The poor are poor because they are oppressed. The rich are rich because they were born advantaged...it certainly has nothing to do with the fact that they often work harder than anyone else to become rich.

Meanwhile, we're subsidizing irresponsibility. Disposable income that could go toward food, rent, utilities, clothes, etc are used for booze and drugs. If a person's total income is increased by $400 because of food stamps, then that increase goes to cigarettes, RTO weekly payments, and other imprudent habits...all made possible because we're showing partiality to the poor. It doesn't lift them from poverty. Why?

Because Poverty Is A Mindset!!

 

Good points, but there's one more fallacy the left likes to throw around.

All poor people are unhappy. Poor people aren't necessarily unhappy. Even those who refuse to draw govt assistance have the right to choose their own standard of living.

I think the #1 cause of poverty is simply low motivation. If a person receives enough $$$ from the govt to survive on, even if it's barely survive, why should that person be motivated to do better? So they can set the alarm for 6 am and get out there and fight the rat race for a living? Or wake up at 10, just in time to catch Oprah on their cable TV?

 

Yes, there are plenty of examples. You act as though all the problems of poverty are self inflicted and ignore huge factors beyond those people's control.

Except when they are? So you're just ignoring when they aren't? My mom has debilitating allergies to like everyone. My brother is the same. It's genetic. GENETIC. You moron. Health problems are usually outside of a person's control.

Get it through your thick skull. To suggest we have 100% control over our aspects of our lives is idiotic.


honestly I'm done reading and responding here. You're hopelessly unintelligent, naive, ignorant and lack any signs of a logical mind. You're a tool. You're a drone. You're part of the problem.

 

What, exactly, are you trying to say? That people with low SES don't tend to come from families with low SES?

 

Health problems are also beyond the govt's control, so your point is moot. The OP wasn't directed at the physically disabled. MOST poor people aren't disabled.

 

Oh look, a religious person makes a thread blaming people who are poor on themselves and attacking them. I thought Christians were supposed to love the poor?

Hypocritcal Christians attack again!

 

I suppose from your point of view it would have been better if an atheist was blaming or attacking the poor.

 

Whether they do or not is immaterial since your entire argument is based on a central power (the govt) intervening in the socio-economic destiny of it's citizens.

Which is socialism personified.

Nothing but pie-in-the-sky, 'breeding the perfect race' utopianism. No place for that kind of govt interference in a free society.

 

Please quote "my argument" in this thread.

 

Its not their fault, its the economy, its the education system, its somebody else's fault.

Our population is 311 million, 45 million live in poverty

Our workforce is 140 million. OFFICIALLY 9.1% of them are collecting unemployment benefits. That's 12.7 million. but in reality we have 20% not working. That's 28 million. And we have 49 million collecting food stamps.

In a strong economy about 12% live in poverty. That's 37.3 million. So our weak economy has put 7.7 million more into poverty. but what about the 37.3 million that are always there? And the 42 million that always collect food stamps? Are they ALL, ALL 37.3 million, disabled and unable to do for themselves?

 

But many times it is a choice, or at least the result of foolish choices.

If a person is obese due to overeating and poor diet choices, then the diabetes, joint problems, heart problems and all of the other issues arising from being overweight are the result of that person's choice.

If a person who smokes or was a smoker develops lung cancer, emphysema or any other cigarette-related diseases, those are the results of that person's choice.

Overweight people, smokers, people with unhealthy diets and poor hygiene tend to get ill far more often than people without those factors, so many illnesses in those cases are preventable and are due to those people's choices.

Employment issues aren't necessarily a person's choice, but employability issues often are. What second and third career options and training have the person sought? If they lose their job what other options do they have? People need to have other options available in case the unexpected happens.

Unexpected things happen to all of us. The amount of damage such crises do is often determined by the preparation and choices that the individual did prior to the problem. The time to buy insurance isn't after the tornado hits. The time to save money and learn a second career isn't after you lose your job. The time to eat healthy and exercise isn't after you have a heart attack.