Speaking of strawmen... I was referring to people who buy into the official story as the correct explanation, not people who "think most Truther theories are complete garbage." Even I fit the latter category, because due to the shear volume of theories, simple maths determine that the majority must be false as they are mutually exclusive to other theories for the most part. Also, I was clearly making a generalization, and addressed no specific people in particular.. My rant, as opinionated and emotional I admit that it was, wasn't meant to mean "all official story advocates support torture" or anything like that, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I have seen little to no outrage from the resident skeptics about the government lies, or calls for heads to roll (maybe you can point out some passages if I missed this) but I see lots of constant scoffing at harmless nutjobs like Alex Jones. The latter seems to be the dominant agenda. Not all official story advocates are lemmings, however, as evidenced by justification and excuses made for their government's coverup, many of this group seem to be.. Conversely, I fail to see how being brainwashed by a nutter with a megaphone can be anything but harmless. And that's the only point I'm trying to make.. If ANYTHING the term "lemmings" better applies to the official story advocates, even if only on a general level, with exceptions, but that's the only thing I'm trying to say here.
I believe the commonly used phrase here is "the generally accepted narrative of the 911 Commission" or somesuch. As in, hijackers crashed planes into buildings. No controlled demo or any of that other nonsense I won't mention. The machinations in the background are much harder to ascertain, especially the funding end. While I'm not in the camp that the USG was behind the attacks, I am in my own smaller camp that believes some within foreign governments (like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) might have had more than a small hand in 9/11. Events many years before and up to the current date have the earmarks of that strong possibility. This is the part of the Commission report I have some issues with, because a lot of it was redacted out. I believe it was redacted out to protect the larger strategic policies of the US, which don't always shy away from relationships with less than savory characters. This is the much harder thing to prove, unless one is privy to real intelligence, which no one posting on the net is. It's speculation, but it's not dumb speculation like controlled demolitions and the like. Hypothetical which I've proposed in other forums in the past. IF you were a player within the USG and you felt the need to conduct an attack on your own soil, would you: A- Go through backchannels and fund actual terrorists (who don't know the real source of their funding) to let them pull it off for you. Even if they're only marginally successful, they're still successful (say only one plane hit it's target). or B- Create a massive conspiracy involving a thousand moving parts to hijack planes, launch missiles, plant explosives, plant debris, etc. One of this does not even come close to the K.I.S.S. principle. One important thing I'd also like to add is with regards to Wikileaks. In all of the info leaked in the last few years, there has not been ONE cable, memo, or other intel that points towards an inside job by the USG. I find that very telling.
Oh Libya bombed some plane (alledgedly 25 years ago) so scored earth policy... NeoCon blather ... blah, blah, blah...fill in the blanks... log in to Facebook ...blah blah blah We are being PSYOP'ed to death everyday,after 10 years we recognize all the tricks! some backround reading on media gatekeepers Prison Planet.com » Huffington Post Kills Jesse Venturas Piece On 9/11 http://www.prisonplanet.com/huffington-post-kills-jesse-venturas-piece-on-911.html The Nation joins the campaign against Julian Assange http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/dec2010/nati-d30.shtml Time to Unplug the CPB http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2671 Wheres The Democracy Now? - Pacifica radio and its alternative news station Democracy Now! | Ecologist, The | Find Articles at BNET http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2465/is_1_31/ai_70910941/ My Left Wing:: Two Peace Activists Banned From Daily Kos http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=16625 Consortiumnews.com http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/032708b.html COINTELPRO 101 - The Sabotage Of Legitimate Dissent - YouTube [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISkqQ3hpW5E"]COINTELPRO 101 - The Sabotage Of Legitimate Dissent - YouTube[/ame] The Truth About Kos (DailyKos): "Censorship In The Blogosphere," by the Liberal Journal Blog http://truth-about-kos.blogspot.com/2007/08/censorship-in-blogosphere-by-liberal.html
They inevitably descend into wasting time, money, and eventually their lives, to varying degrees, on falsehoods. Belief in a falsehood is inherently damaging. You might disagree with that, ok. Actually, the 9/11 deniers are the ones doing this. They are making believe that the government and/or this "conspiracy" is all-powerful and all-knowing, or at least ridiculously more powerful and knowing than most people give the government credit for. They "whitewash" the record of government failures that led up to 9/11 by saying they weren't failures but parts of a meticulously planned conspiracy. Instead of seeking to hold people accountable for REAL failures, they seek to hold people accountable for fake, easily disproven, alleged malicious acts. And that harms us all. Because if there's one thing the cult of 9/11 denial is, it's tenacious. And that tenacity would be so positive if they went after the real problems that led to 9/11, instead of wallowing in this security blanket where the big strong government can prevent random acts from occurring, and as long as you have good people in government instead of evil conspirators, nothing bad will ever happen. For the sake of argument? No, that's the truth. But I like your term - pandemic incompetence. I am. Read my posts here regarding the Patriot Act, TSA screenings, and the fact that Islamic terrorism is not really a major threat, and has been blown way out of proportion by politicians seeking to gain or maintain power. I do. I have frequently argued for reversing the Patriot Act and other post-9/11 supposed "remedies" which are at once ineffective and unconstitutional. I do. Check out the threads, not only on this forum but elsewhere, where I have taken merciless beatings for arguing that the 9/11 terrorists should be treated as common criminals and tried in civilian courts given the protections of the Constitution. To do otherwise is to elevate the cause of these animals to a "war", instead of what it is: Pathetic and misguided simple criminal thuggery. Well, I do that, but it's tough to demand honesty when there are people standing next to me demanding that they admit something that isn't true, i.e. that they actively aided in the murder of 3,000 Americans. See, I believe that people spreading lies are always harmful, especially when those lies distract others from the real problems.
Some people who believe in different theories may indeed waste a lot of time and even lots of money on it sure, that's not a requirement. I believe in the possibility of a few theories that don't line up with the official explanation, but I've never wasted money on books or DvD's, and the extent of my activism is arguing about it online here, only as something to do. I do appreciate that you take the government response to the attack seriously and respect the fact that you want boundaries for your leaders. The federal trials for the accused, while a plausible idea on the surface, were shelved a long time ago, back in 2009, when the possibility was effectively blocked by the congress.. Obama and Holder benched those plans that long ago, with no new developments since then save more reduntant lip service that they will eventually get around to reopening a military commission. Based on your commendible responses there I think you come across exactly the type of guy who should be concerned about the state of affairs where you can hold guys a decade or more without conviction. Even as convinced as you are that they aren't innocent, there is still harm done in this in that it sets precedent for future abuses of detention of innocent people, which is something else that was done and can easily be repeated by the systems that are in place by using the concept of open ended "war" in order to circumvent legal safegaurds to the democratic ideals that are meant to shape the free society we're meant to be living in.
The official explanation, as told by the 9/11 commission, is MUCH more involved than just the hijackings and the buildings. It involves a whole web of planning and plotting and funding and masterminding which has NOT been substantiated and also failures that seem to go beyond incompetence, and inexplicable reactions by the government before and after the event, that don't have adequate explanation.. It's about the trigger man himself, and the cause of failure in the system and its alleged lack of preparedness and ability to do anything. I'm not convinced of all that and I don't think the official version of this whole entire big picture of events is "generally accepted" by the public at large. I agree completely. And thanks for admitting it's speculative. You're the first other person I've seen do that.. There's nothing wrong with speculating and determining if such things are possible or not. Manufacturing the whole thing start to finish is very hard to do and not at all likely. If you see an opportunity and you can seize it by doing nothing, this is actually VERY easy to do. One of my speculative theories involves intentional dereliction of duty on the part of Donald Rumsfeld certainly, and possibly George W. Bush. These are the top two officials in the military chain of command and can be expected to be involved during an attack, especially when written into procedures for certain aircraft hijackings. Doing NOTHING does not involve lots of moving parts, you don't need to kidnap families to keep thousands of people quiet and you leave behind zero evidence of malfaescense so long as you keep your mouth shut. Rumsfeld hiding under his desk where nobody could reach him and get him to approve decisions during a real time attack scenario is an easy thing to do, ordering a missile to be fired at his building and getting people to claim they saw a plane hit when they didn't, not so easy.
...and the buzzer sounds...EHHHHH...WRONG. Like people who cannot understand when an official report is invalid, due to highly edited information, some of which we still cannot view today, yet, a fairy tale does it for ya. A piece of paper, full of lies, accepted by dunces.
I think the "jews did it" mantra was planted into 9/11 Truth by cointelpro so that people would be repelled by what appears to be rampant anti-semitism within the movement.
Doesn't matter if tomorrow every scrap of material was made public about 9/11,You STILL wouldn't accept it
He actually has a vested interest in keeping the lideral agenda alive and well. If his bad guy goes away, he will go away. In reality, there is no right wing left wing. It is an illusion created to keep the citizens eyes off the ball, so they can usurp our US Constitution, remove our soveriegnty, steal our resources, tax us into 3rd world status and enslave our children and grandchildren.
Well, you would be wrong my friend (again). Show me something consistent, provable and verifiable and I'll always consider it. You think I wouldn't like to be wrong about 9/11? I'd love to buy the BS, and believe our leaders aren't a bunch of evil serving pond scum. That would be fantastic for my kids future. That ain't the truth though, and I'm honest enough to admit it.
Right.......don't blow smoke up My posterior....you people live for the conspiracy,if it were gone,what would you do nights?
Is that what I live for? You really do take everything at surface value, don't you? What would I do if the 9/11 terror masters within weren't blowing their own citizens all to Hell? Probably be on your side, scolding all they crazy truthers. 'Cept, they're not the ones that are crazy.
Nope Unfortunately it will never go away as long as the weak and cowardly protect the status quo. To have to admit that your beliefs about government, politics and the money system that subsidizes it, is BS, would have a devastating affect on your already weak foundation. You wouldn't be able to watch TV, listen to the radio or even go to a ball game with out being remnded of what a d****** your were most of your life. Who the F pays 8 bucks for a beer.
Naa, I don't need to anything in your mouth You say s*** and then expect people to allow you to back up with out consequence. Homey don't play that game
I think he means that you are insincere when it comes to actually looking at and responding to the available evidence.
Oh I'm insincere when I'm being fed a line of bull(*)(*)(*)(*) from truthers,since they think the only truth is the stuff they make up...
The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is so clear that it can't be obfuscated. The only thing you pro-official version people can do is try to bury it deep in the thread to reduce the number of people who see it. We truthers can thwart you by posting it from time to time. This isn't everything. It's just a partial summary but there's enough clear evidence here to convince a person of normal intelligence that 9/11 was an inside job. http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/182662-video-message-non-truthers.html#post3774590
"Cole claims to be a man of the left and he appears with painful frequency on Amy Goodmans Democracy Now as the reigning expert on the war on Libya. This is deeply troubling " pre-packaged "dissent" doesn't help either. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29010.htm
