Evolution is a joke Pt. VIII

Are you suggesting the tree “knows” how to mutate?

Also, it is local… That’s the way it works… We were just discussing this in Circle Species (I believe it’s called) about localized speciation…

The extinct part is correct, but I am wondering why though this would happen, it is my point. Hasn’t evolution started with the Redwood? Isn’t there some that are evolving so when this catastrophe does happen some will survive because they have evolved?

In fact, shouldn’t it be like this with ALL life? Example: Some people have activated a gene sequence from when we were fish and sprouted gills, then a great flood happens and the gill people live… Isn’t that how’s it’s supposed to work?

 

If this is true, they would have named it. Do you have a name for this? Also, why doesn’t a species need to adapt? Because “something” needs to adapt first right? The cycle must start somewhere so something “must” adapt… So, I don’t understand you suggesting we have a choice in adaption?

[/QUOTE]Conclusion, species that have a very slow propagation rate such as the towering redwood have adapted very well to the environment.... You will not see many different variations as a result..... [/QUOTE]
So we should see all kinds of variations in E. Coli and amoeba’s? But, we don’t… How do you explain that?

From fish scales? I have no clue what ridiculousness the Darwinist have stated the pine needles came about…

I am not understanding your point in this part… Also, depending on how hot the fire reaches, pine trees are definitely destroyed. We have some of the biggest fires in the US remember… Oregon and Cali…

 

No because Human Chromosome 2 has almost the same exact information as the Chimps Chromosome 2A and 2B and more importantly Human Chromosome 2 same exact sequences that Chimps Chromosome 2A and 2B.

That is the evidence of Fusion for Human Chromosome 2.

 

I'm sorry, what part of that isn't clear? If I give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you're a biologist, you're the only one who doesn't understand the difference between a recessive allele and a dormant gene. Recessive "genes" (more properly called alleles) are still active. Dormant genes are inactive. Do you understand that part? It's the difference between saying "I can't taste the vodka because the orange juice is covering it up" versus "this glass is empty." You're trying to describe an empty glass by telling us that the vodka has no taste to it.

And here's why this hurts your credibility. Have you ever talked to someone who doesn't really know much about computers, but they know enough to think that they know? They do things like describe a computer as having 320 GB of memory, when they're really talking about the hard drive. That's what you're doing here with genetics. Just like a hard drive stores data, so some people think of it as memory, you're calling an inactive gene "recessive" because a recessive allele is kind of like a dormant gene. A computer expert would never, ever confuse RAM with the hard drive. You are the first biologist (assuming you are one) that I've ever heard of confusing recessive "genes" with dormant genes.

 

The unclear part … Well, there are two…

Then this…

In the second paragraph you state two things that in the first you deny. First (in the second paragraph) you say there is “No such things as recessive genes” (which there are). The second part is the next sentence where you say that a gene will not “cover up” another gene. Then per my link it states it’s masked and how did you describe it…? You described it as “covered up”…

Now again, can you please take the time to straighten all that out and use proper terms as you suggested…

 

First - what do you mean "almost" the same exact information...? What is the "almost"? Please explain why - in perfect replication of DNA it's "almost"...

I understand Chromo 2a and 2b... So where is the equivalent in the Beaver and the EuroBeaver? Do they have Chromo 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 2e, 2f, 2g and 2f? Then we can see all these fused together in the beavers chromosomes? Right? You going to point this out so we can see the difference between the two and how they came from a common ancestor?

Waiting patiently...

 

You should know what I mean. I am tired of your silly games.
You know dam well, that not even in Human Beings, will all 237 Million base pairs will match exactly. You also know dam well, there is not 'prefect' replication of DNA, as that is what causes Mutations.

You know all this, yet you ask why. Keep your silly games to yourself.

Google is your friend. I refuse to do your foot work.

 

We have quite a scary thing to consider here..... The human form and it's life span has been elongated by our large brains..... We have solidified our vitamin intake and nutrition as well as chemically fighting infections.....

We have completely stopped our physical evolution, human forms that might have otherwise died in an environment that pushed against it continue through our knowledge ensuring that it continues..... Instead of only our strongest characteristics continuing within the gene pool, well, so do all the weak ones..... If we continue within this path, these weak characteristics will begin to rear their ugly head becoming much more complex in how they negatively affect the body..... Essentially, nature will equalize itself!
That is not even the scary part, we are fighting infections using antibiotics.... Bacteria is one of those form with the fastest "propagation" multiplying as quickly as every 20 minutes.... Exponentially every twenty minutes? We are talking trillions in a day..... We fight these infections by introducing antibiotics, the problem is that we have introduced a chemical stressor.... If it doesn't completely wipe out the bacteria, well, on to multiplying..... The body naturally helps this process, so we won't see these surviving bacteria until the body again is unable to fight it.... When we do?
This is where we find what is referred to as mutation.... Random variances happen all the time, they usually happen so slowly within a species that it goes without any significant notice or it is pushed out of continuation by those characteristics that have been perfecting over millions of years.
Bacteria is quite different, it is replicating at such a ridiculous rate that these variances, although by the single unit it is no different than any form of life, the sheer numbers and speed of numbers show an incredible ability to "mutate" and bring these characteristics that are resistant to stressors forward much quicker than any organism.
We are on the way to stressing bacteria to the point that no knowledge or chemical will be able to save us. To add insult to injury, we are also weakening our form...... Seems to contradict a perfect existence and even the concept of God, but do we have the ability to evolve intellect in a different sort of way in order to strengthen our form?
Wouldn't that be something, I have some thoughts and ideas to paint a masterpiece of the mind..... Give me some time and I will share!

 

So you are suggesting that within Chromo 2 that there are different gene sequences than other humans? Some may have different gene sequences within Chromosome 2... Is that it?

Really?

Also, we were talking about Chromosomes...

So you can make outlandish claims and not provide evidence of these claims? Really..?


Also, you have a history of posting and then changing up what you said, no offense, I just want to make sure we are on the same page... I don't want the whole Natural Selection defintion or Evolution defintion reborn!!

 

Mutate?
Evolve! A tree and it's slow propagation rate could never, would never, nor has any intellectual claimed that it has mutated.... The word mutate only relates to how quickly an organism in this example is able to replicate, it does not apply to red woods.

 

Fabulous…

Also, I think that you are correct with your assessment here in the states and developed countries, but there are still plenty of humans that live off the land and will, or should be evolving at this very moment!

 

Sorry, that is why I ask questions, I don't want to take something for a meaning as you, the poster didn't want...

 

How can you effectively argue a point against something when you have zero knowledge of what you are arguing against?

I actually have no problem with someone taking a different stance in thought, but if that person has no knowledge of any stance but their own, it is only capable of making declarations.... In essence there is no discussion and there is no exchange within the discussion.

 

Wow... all my respect to you, sorry, I didn't see this... please disregard the previous post!

This response I can appreciate!

 

Please refer to the entire sentence: There is no such thing as a "recessive gene," the way that you are trying to use the term. You were talking about inactive genes. Inactive genes are dormant, not recessive. When you call them "recessive genes," you're using the term incorrectly. In that regard, there is no such thing as a gene that is recessive because it is inactive. Really, the term "recessive gene" is a bastardization of "recessive allele" and it shouldn't be used. A layman won't have any idea what you're talking about if you say "allele," though.

In the second part, I should have said. I was rushed and getting sloppy. A dominant allele covers up a recessive one. They're both variants of the same gene. We see that kind of thing all the time. What we don't see is one gene covering up another gene. My previous example was with eyes: the gene for eye color would never cover up a gene related to vision. A gene can cause another to be inactive, but it won't cover up another, different gene. So, yeah, this is another fine example of why terms need to be used properly. Maybe it would not have been confusing if I had properly said allele instead of gene.

Anyway, you're seriously the only biologist (assuming, again, that you actually are one) for whom this kind of thing is confusing.

 

Think about fast growing plant life, it grows in this environment becoming lush until the inevitable happens.... The forest fire!

This is a stressor that continues to "weed" out those plants that are either not able to survive or contend with the plants that are able to regrow at an accelerated rate to cover this mass of land..... Here is the edge, a small tree begins to come forward within this mass, it regrows from the small amounts left undamaged by the fire and we begin to see an interesting characteristic emerge... The leaves begin develop a variable where they slowly fray, shorten and become more slender in mass, this characteristic slowly begins to edge out all the other plant life until it is the only one able to survive and then compete to replenish the space. It is decimated over and over by these fires, further perfecting, by leaving behind only the strongest. Even then it's own form competes to replenish, and only the strongest ones within those that are left, with the shortest most slender leaves have enough mass to regrow and compete with it's own species for this space..... It's hard to imagine the slow process that has perfected this leaf to needle adaptation..... Stress a plant enough without completely destroying it or leaving it behind a contending species, it will PERFECT itself to it's environment.

 

Why are you once again twisting stuff around? I have said over and over, that the gene sequences are the the same in Human Chromosome 2 as they are in the Chimpanzee, Orangutang and Gorilla's Chromosomes 2A & 2B. GENE SEQUENCES.

There are 237 million base pairs in Human Chromosome 2. All 237 million base pairs will not completely match from human to human. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE GENE SEQUENCES WILL NOT. THAT IS YET ANOTHER INCORRECT THOUGHT ON YOUR END. And no where did I suggest this.

Now keep the above in mind while you read this:

Whats funny....is in bold in my quote...I just repeated my self.......


Now like I said...would you like to quite playing silly games?

 

This is obviously a work in progress needing refinement.... I think faster than I can write, and speak faster than I can think... Something like that!
Given the short notice, it has gaping holes in thought, the ideas are still present.

I was thinking about death and how interesting it is that there is so much suffering surrounding it.
I wondered if I was the one who designed life, what purpose would pain serve in the process of death? To truly appreciate life?
A horrific experience to contemplate.....
Our bodies begin to fail until something takes over and begins to devour us from within. A failing mind where we become lost within it, falling deep into dementia.
Again, a little to late in the process of knowledge..... Somewhat of a cruel joke.... Who would allow something like this happen?
How does our own intellect choose to respond? In our symptomatic nature of approach, the answer is quite simple......
Here, take this pill... You won't have to suffer nearly as much; the denial of form will seem less real.
In a world where we refuse to stand up and take responsibility for anything; it's simply just another aspect of projection.

If I had designed life, I would fill the world with minds... each one being a great composer of it's own...... It would not be me who has designed a life to suffer, I would offer the mind the ability to decide it no longer needs to suffer; even within the nature of death by offering it the power to peacefully let go.

The magnificent gift of becoming a composer of intricate fractals.... patterns within the mind.... Lush gardens, magnificent architecture, infinite possibility... Every step a work of art.... The sheer beauty cleanses the body and mind, washing away all pain.
A frail body strengthened in a pure fluidity of motion and the nurturing expression of the mind. The mind becoming so full it only has one thing left to experience, quietly and peacefully letting go into that frailty.

We manage our population now, no thought to the land and it's use.... How do we produce the greatest mass of food with the least amount of cost; the question is to ask what is the cost to the expression of our form? We refer to paper money in this cost, tokens; not the cost of land, water or the potential in it's biomass.
The answer of course is in the production of grain to feed the masses as if we are cattle, fattened up with refined sugars and preservatives.... prepared for the slaughter.
We are far too intelligent for such an existence... Utilizing nature to produce a mindful aspect of nurturing the body, we are not bringing the cultivator of water into the earth but watching it retreat into it's body of origin.... A crackerjack box house with a green lawn, this is how we represent the expressive potential of the mind?
An expression, planted to retain and utilize every drop of water, the transpiration of plant fills the air with moisture creating an environment that begins to support it's own expansion, mirroring the very infinite capacity of the mind.... A lush garden of the mind, ensuring that it will never wither away. The care and expression, the purity of vegetal mass that enters the body, providing the strength and foundation of it's form.

That is a brilliance I would certainly want to know, whatever form it might take.... Even if it was only within my own mind. How could I begin to imagine that it was only by chance, stumbling upon such a contemplative brilliance. What a truly magnificent gift being the composer of the mind, if it all turns out to be a lie; can I then make it as grand and colorful as I want it to be, an embellishment of infinite proportion?

Denying the expression of body and mind for so many generations that the very form has become genetically predisposed?

One might consider the seemingly contradictory brilliance within evolution, the perfecting of the physical form over millions of years, and how it might impact how quickly we could now repair and balance it.... Strengthening the body, now through the expression of the mind......

What about the emotion of love and it's physical expression.... Are our relationships filled with depth, or do they scratch upon the surface within all the denial of form?
What if every fiber of our being was in tune, not only within ourselves but also connected to the one we are making love to?
What if in that ecstatic moment and every expression leading up to it, we offered within our magnificent release, only the strongest of our qualities to the creation of a new life?

I don't think we are true to our creative nature of form, hamsters on a wheel chasing foolish pieces of paper? What if every day was an offering to the masterpiece of our expression?
We do not live our lives with passion or make love to another with all of our expression; we are still children learning how to let go of absurdities.
Attribute it to God, attribute it to life..... Does it change what we have to offer in expression?

 

Wait, what are we arguing about?

 

Maybe now it is… not 30 years ago… and you are correct in allele… Do you have any idea who it was I was posting that you interrupted on? Do you know his knowledge in biology? Do you think that if I were to “use” correct terms he/she would know without a Google search?

I don’t… Nor didn’t know…

I can’t express to you enough, if you are going to hijack a post from a conversation I am having with another, do not criticize me for the language I am using on another when I am not even replying to you please…

I know you were getting sloppy… I am not going to sit there and post something dealing with you because I know that you do have knowledge on the subject. You are not perfect (even though you will never admit you are wrong) and I can except that.

You jumped in on a thread and call it confusing when I am not even talking to you. I am NOT confused… I, as I have stated SO MANY TIMES do that on purpose. I have to know their knowledge.. Goldwater and Akhlut are good peoples and I know that they know what they are talking about, I use correct terms. But, for others, I really don’t care because I have spent whole threads trying to get posters to use correct terms that have no clue what they are talking about. I have two categories, those “seeking” knowledge and those I discuss with.

If you are going to jump in a conversation, please know that posters level of biology… I mean, go back and read what he/she posted and then tell me if I was incorrect in dumbing it down… which is hard to do…

 

Where has this happened? The leaves becoming smaller? What species of tree has done this? Or is this an “example” of a hypothesis of how needles came about.

But, here is the problem with that, some of the trees in that ecosystem that “are not” the stronger would survive. In this case you would be able to see a difference between species as one was evolving and the other (the weaker) was not. We are unable to see this with any species (over a trillion I am assuming) on Earth at this moment in time.

 

Now you need to get your story straight because there is 150,000 base pair that you said are not from 2a and 2b... I am not going to quote it, you can figure it out and post it correctly.

Also, the discussion is about the beavers remember.... Go ahead and relate the beavers with a difference of 8 chromo's with the ape clade please...

Will be still waiting patiently...

 

No…

But, I am (sorry) going to have to ask you to stay on topic please.

 

Never arguing... discussing evolution...

 

No sorry my fault..... God created the tree with it's needles in it's current form......
Forest fires? Check!
Tree able to flame up, burn out oxygen and survive total destruction? Check!

What is more brilliant?
A God that designed every single form of life and placed it there; hell, even threw in some crazy dinosaur fossils just to keep us on our toes..... or
A God that offered perfection in the form of life, knowing that it will paint a masterpiece of itself.... And from it will evolve intellect in it's perfect form, a magnificent gift to become the observer.

Intellectually and contemplatively, if life itself IS perfection through it's own aspect of perfecting, and we have sprung from it in this form.... Are you not a part of it's perfection and then able to take responsibility for it's perfecting; applying it to our expressions of society, concepts of intellect and perhaps even spirituality?
Does perfection have an ego? Or is the perfection of love able to let go and watch itself unfold?