The Medieval Warm Period – unprecedented global warming, or scientific manipulation?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by James Cessna, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    I challenge the most articulate and well versed global "alarmists” in our group to correctly and objectively answer the following scientific questions.

    Did man and his deliberate combustion of fossil fuels like bituminous coal, gasoline, aviation fuel and natural gas cause the earth to warm to much higher global temperatures at the first part of the Medieval Warm Period and the conclusion of the Little Ice Age?

    None of the usual unprovoked insults and accentuated "arm waving" please. We are looking for scientific answers to these very reasonable questions.

     
  2. three_lions

    three_lions New Member

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    The Medieval Warm Period is an established fact among scientists, as is the Little Ice Age. Both of these climate cycles dramatically changed Europe. Before the Little Ice Age, England produced quality wine that was in demand throughout Europe.
     
  3. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    You are correct, three_lions.

    You notice the global "alarmists" in this group have not responded to my scientific questions for them.

    They often love to attack the "messenger", but they seldom are smart enough to refute the "messages" and the valid arguments we make against the existence of anthropogenic global warming!

    Sad. Very Sad.

    [​IMG]

    Compare the length of the “manipulated" shadow cast by the chimney and the “true” length of the squirrel’s actual shadow!
     
  4. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Answer me this.

    Is it impossible to murder someone just because the majority of people don't die from murder?
     
  5. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are still warming out of a cool period... near the end. Then we should find ourselves in another cool period. The cycle is clear. Quickly go cold... slowly warm back up... all this man made global warming is nonsense and a grasp to collect BILLIONS and levy control over the masses.
     
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    They once grew wheat in Greenland. When it gets warm enough for that again things will be back to normal.
     
  7. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Your logic is flawed.
     
  8. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    Mod Edit: Flamebait and insult.
    How does the Medieval Warm Period compare to current global temperatures?

    The 'skeptic' argument...
    The Medieval Warm Period was warmer than current conditions. This means recent warming is not unusual and hence must be natural, not man-made.

    What the science says...
    While the Medieval Warm Period saw unusually warm temperatures in some regions, globally the planet was cooler than current conditions.

    One of the most often cited arguments of those skeptical of global warming is that the Medieval Warm Period (800-1200 AD) was as warm as or warmer than today. Using this as proof to say that we cannot be causing current warming is a faulty notion based upon rhetoric rather than science. So what are the holes in this line of thinking?

    Firstly, evidence suggests that the Medieval Warm Period was in fact warmer than today in many parts of the globe such as in the North Atlantic. This warming thereby allowed Vikings to travel further north than had been previously possible because of reductions in sea ice and land ice in the Arctic. However, evidence also suggests that some places were very much cooler than today including the tropical pacific. All in all, when the warm places are averaged out with the cool places, it becomes clear that the overall warmth was likely similar to early to mid 20th century warming. Since that early century warming, temperatures have risen well-beyond those achieved during the Medieval Warm Period across most of the Globe. This has been confirmed by the National Academy of Sciences Report on Climate Reconstructions. Further evidence (Figure 1) suggests that even in the Northern Hemisphere where the Medieval Warm Period was the most visible, temperatures are now beyond those experienced during Medieval times.

    Secondly, the Medieval Warm Period has known causes which explain both the scale of the warmth and the pattern. It has now become clear to scientists that the Medieval Warm Period occurred during a time which had higher than average solar radiation and less volcanic activity (both resulting in warming). New evidence is also suggesting that changes in ocean circulation patterns played a very important role in bringing warmer seawater into the North Atlantic. This explains much of the extraordinary warmth in that region. These causes of warming contrast significantly with today's warming, which we know cannot be caused by the same mechanisms.

    Overall, our conclusions are:
    a) Globally temperatures are warmer than they have been during the last 2000 years, and
    b) the causes of Medieval warming are not the same as those causing late 20th century warming.

    [​IMG]
    Figure 1: Northern Hemisphere Temperature Reconstruction by Moberg et al. (2005) shown in blue, Instrumental Temperatures from NASA shown in Red.


    © Copyright 2012 John Cook

    (In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)
     
    Bowerbird and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After that "hockey stick", no one's believing their "climate" models of the past, sorry!
     
  10. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    You are indeed correct. Professor Peabody.

    It is a well established fact there has been no global warming of the earth's environment in 15 years.

    CO2 levels have continued to rise without interruption, but we now know with the release of new temperature data that the planet has not warmed in quite a long time.

    "Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the NANA GISS and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997."

    The climate models developed by the United Nations that claimed as recently as 2007 that global warming was about to ‘come roaring' back and break the previous temperature record set in 1998 are now proven wrong and are considered today by most scientists to be highly untrustworthy.

    These models even went so far as to claim that between 2004 and 2014 there would be an overall increase in global temperatures. In 2009, these models predicted that at least three of the years 2009 to 2014 would break the previous temperature record set in 1998.

    Meanwhile, since the end of last year, world temperatures have fallen by more than half a degree as a result of re-emergence of the cold ‘La Nina’ effect in the South Pacific.

    ‘"If we don’t see convincing evidence of global warming by 2015, it will start to become clear whether the United Nations models are bunk. And, if they are, the implications for some scientists could be very serious."

    Global warming is a religion to the global "alarmists" in this group. To question its existence is to question the teachings of Mohammed and Jesus in the eyes of the most radical Muslims and fundamentalist Christians!
     
  11. ronmatt

    ronmatt New Member

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    100 years prior to that Medieval Warming, man discovered that veggies were pretty good to eat, if cooked. People all across Europe began stuffing themselves with broccoli, cabbage, Brussel sprouts, beans and cauliflower. Flatulent's high in methane filled the atmosphere causing the planet to warm up.
     
  12. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    Are you aware that methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide? Methane is 25X as effective in increasing the earth's global temperature as is carbon dioxide.

    You laugh, but as the world's population continues to explode, the third world countries will have to raise more and more farm animals and provide many more rice patties to feed their burgeoning populations. By the way, farm animals and rice patties are notorious sources of copious amounts of methane gas. By the way, the world now contains 7 billion people. Most of them are uneducated and practice primitive religions that encourage them to bring more people into the world!
     
  13. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    These discussions were very good.

     
  14. sherp

    sherp New Member

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    The way it is going in Europe, those folk need all the warmth they can get.
     
  15. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    Ha-Ha!

    Actually, many scientists now believe the earth's gradual global heating phase has stopped, and now it is entering a global cooling phase for the next 50-75 years.

    Much like the Medieval Warm Period followed immediately later by the Little Ice Age.

    By the way, was “anthropogenic" global warming responsible for when we entered the Medieval Warm Period, and later, when we began to warm after the Little Ice Age?

    The global "alarmists" will not answer these questions!



    [​IMG]
     
  16. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    I don't know.

    Why don't you tell us.

    We will await your answer.
     
  17. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    Wouldn't our cooking fires have released too much carbon by now after a million years or so?

    .
     
  18. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    Yeah, you would think so!

    And what about all the trees and vegetation that was burned when the third world nations cleared the rain forests in South America and the thick forests in Central and Costal Africa.

    All of this carbon that was released into the earth's environment by 7 billion people must have raised our global temperature by at least several degrees!

    Wow! A global temperature increase of 0.51 deg-C in 50 years. This increase is truly remarkable!

    It is clearly the fault of the third world nations that cleared and burned the rain forests in South America and the thick forests in Central and Costal Africa.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Like catholics?
     
  20. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    Most Catholics these days practice birth control.

    More like devout Muslims
     
  21. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    Do you remember these dire warnings from not so long ago!

    The global "alarmists" never change. They just exchange words like "global warming" with different words like "global freezing"!

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Time is not a peer reviewed science journal, but then that does not compute in your cultist beliefs.
     
  23. Radio Refugee

    Radio Refugee New Member

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    The hockey stick fraud is not technically a 'model'. It's a multi-proxy paleoclimate reconstruction with huge error bars and fraudulent statistical methodology. Also, some proxies have been truncated when they failed to 'tell the story'.

    It's a classic illustration of the only math you need to understand the topic:

    SCIENCE + POLITICS = POLITICS
     
  24. James Cessna

    James Cessna New Member

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    Ha-Ha!

    I don't believe anyone ever said Time Magazine was a peer-reviewed science journal.

    Please direct us to a discussion where someone claimed Time Magazine was a peer-reviewed science journal.

    CK, do you just make this stuff up or what!

    [​IMG]

    "Colonel K thinks Time Magazine is a peer-reviewed science journal!"
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    "Hockey stick" has been validated

    Numerous times

    By independent review

    But still the cry of fraud echoes out while they ignore blatant misrepresentation and fraud such as shown in the OP
     

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