Simple request for Flight 93

Discussion in '9/11' started by RtWngaFraud, Feb 14, 2012.

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  1. suede

    suede Banned

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    FBI: Buried in the Ground

    Now that I re-showed you and the premise is not false (even though you never seemed to have a problem with Hannibal's claim that he spoke to people at the scene that he claimed they said that the plane buried), will your common sense now take over to realize that the plane wasn't buried and the FBI lied about this?
     
  2. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    Nowhere in that link does the FBI claim that most of Flight 93 was buried. It says MUCH of it was buried and clearly states much of it was found above ground. Once again you are caught blatantly lying.
     
  3. suede

    suede Banned

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    Skeptics, wrong again:

    :woot:
     
  4. DDave

    DDave Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you read the information on the page and exercise common sense you will have no reason to believe the FBI lied.

    The plane was utterly destroyed because the hijackers drove it into an abandoned strip mine at more than 580 miles an hour at a sharp angle. Much of the plane and its contents were found beneath the soft dirt.

    Excavators removed dirt and debris for thorough sifting, initially by hand. Evidence technicians found the flight data recorder about 12 feet below the surface and the cockpit voice recorder about 25 feet deep.

    The fact that no one was standing around video taping the excavation and posting the vids for you to see doesn't mean it didn't happen. The fact that they didn't put the recovered debris in huge piles to take pictures of all the while painstakingly taking care to photograph a suitable percentage of recovered plane parts to convince cynical lunatics doesn't mean it didn't happen.

    Except in killtown's world. I guess if he didn't SEE it happen then it didn't really happen. :brainless: :psychoitc: :crazy:

    That line of thinking must confuse the hell out of him sometimes.
     
  5. suede

    suede Banned

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    No reason other than there being NO EVIDENCE the plane buried. You do remember it was supposedly a 100 ton Boeing 757, right?

    Hannibal claims they did. Do you think Hannibal was lying? yes/no

    Your insinuation of that last part is funny.

    Btw, where DID they put all that tons and tons and tons and tons of plane debris they supposedly dug out of the ground? That's kinda the mystery here.

    Well based on the FEW photos they did take, one has it look like they stopped the excavation to photograph an engine and another one, if I understand the photo correctly, has them not only stopping the excavation, but had someone jumping down in the hole and propping one of the black boxes up to be level for the shot, not mentioning wiping all the dirt off and making sure the black box logo is facing the photo. Seems pretty painstaking to me.

    But thanks for essentially confirming our premise wasn't flawed.
     
  6. suede

    suede Banned

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    Such as?

    Maybe I'm asking you too tough questions and you don't like that.
     
  7. DDave

    DDave Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of evidence that part of the plane buried. Unfortunately the FBI, the 1,400 people working the site, and people with a brain disagree with killtown. I know you think killtown trumps the FBI but I am afraid you are sadly mistaken.

    Why did you clip my quote? I said "The fact that no one was standing around video taping the excavation and posting the vids for you to see doesn't mean it didn't happen."

    Hannibal didn't say anything about anyone posting videos.

    The debris were returned to United Airlines. No great mystery there. Took about 2 seconds with Google to find out.

    Well there you go. I guess photographic evidence DOES exist. So much for your theory.

    By the way, do you have any proof to back up your claim that they had someone "jumping down in the hole and propping one of the black boxes up to be level for the shot, not mentioning wiping all the dirt off and making sure the black box logo is facing the photo" or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated claim?

    Thank you for backing up one of your claims. That's a nice change of pace.

    Not a tough question at all, but one I've already answered. You've rejected ALL of the evidence presented to you in your 7 threads on the topic. Go back and review your threads and you'll see all of the evidence you rejected.

    You DO know how to find your threads don't you? I'll give you a hint. Click on your name in the upper right corner of the forum page, then click Show All Statistics, then click the link that says Find All Threads Started By suede. It's really quite easy.
     
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  8. suede

    suede Banned

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    Too bad the official story wasn't that "part" of the plane buried, but you know that and are just trying to be disingenuous. Not only does that not help your credibility any, it makes you look not confident about the official story, since you're trying to skate around it.


    Because we never made an issue that they 1) supposedly didn't take any video, and 2) didn't post that video online.

    Your quote was stupid, so that's why I only quoted the relevant part to this debate and that part was only relevant because Hannibal claims they did take video and that he once said he had this video before he backtracked that he actually had it.

    I never said he did say anything about "posting" videos. You really need to read better. Makes you look like you need glasses. But seeing how you have a history of being disingenuous, it's no wonder you're getting so much wrong.

    I meant where was all the TONS of debris between being extracted and allegedly returned to UA? Sorry for giving you the benefit of the doubt that you would understand what I meant the first time. I won't make that same mistake again.

    It's like the TONS of debris was teleported from the ground to the UA warehouse, or where ever they supposedly have it stored.

    Being disingenuous again. I never said there was "no" photographic evidence that anything was supposedly buried, hence my thread:

    But you knew this. You were just being disingenuous, per your usual.

    Well if you can tell me where and how this photo was taken and why the black box, which supposedly burrowed down some 20 ft through soft ground, is dirt-free, I'd appreciate it.

    [​IMG]
    http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200065.html

    Such as? Apparently it's too tough for you to do what I asked and post one such piece of most-of-plane-buried evidence that I supposedly rejected.
     
  9. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    One only has to read this far into suede's post to realize it is as dishonest as everything else he posts. The official story clearly states much of the plane was buried and a lot of it wasn't. It takes an incredible amount of dishonesty to read a title and pretend that is all that is said on the subject, especially when it has been pointed out several times to him that there is more.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of irrelevance, suede. Now you can join your buddy killtown on the dustheap of failed truthers.
     
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  10. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For someone who's entire argument rests on semantics and syntax, it's ironic that you're so lousy at reading comprehension, semantics, and syntax.

    The article says that much of the plane was buried. If much of the plane is buried then part of the plane is buried. By the way, most of the plane also encompasses part of the plane. If you are now claiming that the official story wasn't that "part" of the plane was buried then you can no longer claim that the official story is that "most" of it was buried. And might I say, what a lame claim to rest your case on either way.

    Here we see again the major issue with your reading comprehension. The article clearly states where the debris was located. First responders immediately noticed what looked like trash everywhere. contextual hint for Suede:, this is part debris associated with the recovery of the plane. The article says they saw parts of the landing gear, an engine, and a piece of the fuselage about the size of a car hood. contextual hint for Suede:, this is part debris associated with the recovery of the plane. The article says the impact shot debris into the bordering woods and into a nearby pond. contextual hint for Suede:, this is part debris associated with the recovery of the plane.

    So again, suede, your premise that the FBI lied based on a statement that "most" of the aircraft buried underground is clearly a false premise.
     
  11. RtWngaFraud

    RtWngaFraud Banned

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    They claimed "most" of it was buried. (They, being the FBI). It cannot be verified in any physical fashion, that it WAS buried. Something here is false, for sure.
     
  12. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    The vast majority of your posts are false. The one thing you got right is "something here is false", and that was pretty much by accident. :lol: You run from the truth like the rest of the truthers. You've been shown evidence that you can't address so you make up some really lameassed excuses. At least truthers are consistant.
     
  13. DDave

    DDave Well-Known Member

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    Well I assumed that the link that you provided was supposed to substantiate YOUR claim that the FBI claimed that most of the plane buried or that the plane buried. But the info in your link only states that much of the plane buried. Does "much" = "most"? Why don't you go ask killtown and get back to us.

    Well if you won't accept photographic evidence, what is the likelihood that you would accept video evidence. What evidence WILL you accept? If someone built you a time machine and took you to that field right before the plane crashed there, would you believe it then?

    Were they just supposed to pile it in the field while they were going through it? Oh, and take pictures to satisfy killtown's concerns about the exact amount. Why don't you call the FBI and ask them where they took it. You may not want to mention that you think they are liars though.

    Then you agree there is photographic evidence but you can't refute it. You just refuse to accept it.

    If they took a picture of it in its original location in the ground and still covered in dirt, it would be a bit difficult to identify, wouldn't it.

    Did killtown decide that they "wiped too much dirt off" or "more than was necessary" therefore his logical conclusion is that the photo is faked?

    They're your threads. Read the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing things. You've rejected everything that was presented including the pictures you posted in THIS thread.

    They claimed MUCH of it was buried per suede's link. Do you have a link to a source claiming the FBI said "most" of it was buried?

    And I would avoid killtown sources. You and I may not agree on everything discussed on the forum but I do get the impression from your other postings that you are better than that.
     
  14. RtWngaFraud

    RtWngaFraud Banned

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    You run from the fact that the FBI claimed it was buried. You run and spin like a typical shill, and you guys DEFINITELY are consistently consistent on those two points.
     
  15. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    And there goes fraud lying his ass off again. The FBI claimed that MUCH of it was buried. Not most. Not just buried. Funny how you truthers call us shills while constantly lying about just about everything.

    So how is pointing out the truth running from what the FBI said? It is you truthers pretending that the ONLY thing the FBI said was the title while ignoring everything else that was said? Truthers are up to their usual dishonest tactics by cherry picking what the FBI says while ignoring the rest. Debunkers don't do that. We look at the entire release by the FBI which clearly shows you truthers are knowingly lying about what the FBI said.

    So keep on trying to insult us, fraud. All you're doing is ruining your own credibility by exposing the fact truthers lie constantly and about just about everything.

    Seriously. How do you exepct ANYONE to believe ANYTHING you say with that kind of behavior?
     
  16. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I still wish I understood why it's so important to establish the exact location of the debris. So far the "killtown" argument seems to be:

    1. Establish that the FBI claimed the entire aircraft was buried.
    2. Demand to see photographs of an entire aircraft removed from the ground.
    3. If such photographs cannot be produced the FBI lied about 1 and then planted evidence on the scene.

    To me it's a completely illogical argument. It's based on a straw man position, begs the question of the strawman, and then completely denies the antecedent.

    The statement:

    1. If the plane was buried its recovery could be photographed.

    creates the logical fallacy:

    2. There were not enough photographs therefore the plane was not buried.

    What's most confusing to me is how this fallacious argument is supposed to refute all the other sources of evidence surrounding the crash.

    1. The rescue worker testimony
    2. The flight data / tracking
    3. The victim testimony / family member testimony
    4. The forensic evidence / DNA recovery

    How does not enough photographs of debris be enough evidence to turn rescue workers, the FBI the NTSB, the families, the victims, and the forensic scientists all into liars?
     
  17. NAB

    NAB Active Member

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    It's just the typical Truther wedge technique coupled with a massive amount of well established and experienced trolling.

    Eventually, PF will just be another notch in the headboard.......
     
  18. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The typical truther wedge technique is highly irrational.
     
  19. NAB

    NAB Active Member

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    All things being "equal" and all.....
     
  20. DDave

    DDave Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that is covered in the Jumping to Erroneous Conclusions 101 course offered at the Killtown Academy of Logic and Critical Thinking.
     
  21. suede

    suede Banned

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    Um, sounds like that's YOU skeptics who are whining over the words "most" and "much." LOL

    If you take what DDave said out of context, which you are doing, it does seem trivial.

    So lame you skeptics haven't been able to prove that most of the plane buried?

    I'm only concerned about the claim of how much was supposedly buried which Hannibal claims to have confirmed it was "most." Or do you think Hannibal is lying?

    Well no one has proven that most (or "much" LOL) of Flight 93 buried as the official story says, so where's the false premise?
     
  22. NAB

    NAB Active Member

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    Is your zero buried claim taken out of context?

    Keep ignoring this thread, but I'm going to post it every time you make YET ANOTHER one of your bs response posts. Come on brave internet warrior......

    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/232824-prove-zero-united-93-buried.html
     
  23. Patriot911

    Patriot911 New Member Past Donor

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    The only reason you are "concerned" about the claim is that you want to try and pretend that if the FBI lied about that, then they lied about everything else. So you set up a scenario where the only "judge" of what constitutes evidence is you, and, of course, you reject all evidence.

    It is an extremely childish tactic, but one you wish to explore. GREAT! I love it when truthers demonstrate to anyone and everyone reading their crap just how ignorant and childish their claims are.

    Keep it up, suede. The more you duck the questions and the more you insist nothing is evidence the more ridiculous your position is proven to be.
     
  24. suede

    suede Banned

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    Does it not in every situation?

    Let me remind you Wally Miller said the explanation was "2/3" of the plane buried (equaling most), an Ambassador at the Flight 93 memorial said "80%" of the plane buried (equaling most), Hannibal claims Shanks workers confirmed to him that "most" of the plane buried.

    FBI's website about the Shanksville recovery said "Buried in the ground" followed by saying "much" of the plane was, which "much" means "great in quantity," consistent with "2/3," "80%," and "most."

    So what's the problem?

    Please show me photo evidence that a "great quantity" of Flight 93 buried. Haven't seen any yet.

    Hard to think that after digging up supposedly TONS and TONS and TONS of plane debris and sifting through all of it that they didn't pile up all the alleged TONS and TONS and TONS of plane debris somewhere at the scene afterward until they were done excavating.

    But regardless, where was that TONS and TONS and TONS of alleged excavated plane debris after being excavated and before allegedly being given to United Airlines? I'm having a hard time believing all that amount of debris could be missed.

    No, it's more like you skeptics will refuse to accept it's been refuted, but the topic is not "some" of the plane buried, it is a "great quantity" got buried and we want to see proof of that which you skeptics haven't proven. Not even close.

    You totally side-stepped my question. Here it is again: "Well if you can tell me where and how this photo was taken and why the black box, which supposedly burrowed down some 20 ft through soft ground, is dirt-free, I'd appreciate it."

    Wiped too much dirt off? Looks like they wiped ALL the dirt off! After they picked it up and set it on the piece of metal to level it for the shot, making sure the label was showing. And your obsession with Killtown is noted. You might want to seek help for that.

    Show me ONE piece of most/much-plane-buried evidence I rejected. Should be easy if there was so many I "rejected."
     
  25. suede

    suede Banned

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    So if officials said most of a plane was buried and turned out that nothing really was, what would you make of that?

    Who said the "entire" plane buried?
     

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