Continued: John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. John 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the LORD out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. John 20:3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. John 20:4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. John 20:5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. John 20:6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, John 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. John 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. John 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. John 20:10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home. John 20:11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, John 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. John 20:13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my LORD, and I know not where they have laid him. John 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. John 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her. John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. John 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Now I think you can understand what I'm talking about when I say that the single verse is easy to misunderstand. It's part of a larger story that you must understand to explain what the Bible is saying. It's a bit different from the Qu'ran. The Qu'ran is poetry, so it lacks a narrative structure and therefore can be interpreted as single statements. The Bible doesn't work that way. The Bible tells stories and the quotes must be understood in the context of the stories they appear in. Taking a single verse devoid of context is not going to help you understand the verse.
I can understand why you can't read and that you have been indoctrinated to read only John 20:17 at the same time I also understand why you believe that Isa had a substitute and that substitute did not deny he is not the Son of God. In fact Isa didn't testify to the Jews and Pilate that he is not Son of God because he is the Son of God that is why God said Jesus did not die they thought they killed him but they only killed the body that was Jesus but not the Jesus that is God that is why God will raise him to HIMSELF. [4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him—they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him. [4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise John 19: 11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. It is either you: 1. Believe that Jesus had a look alike that the Jews mistakenly killed and that look alike did not deny he is the Son of God that is why the Jews killed him OR 2. The Jews killed Jesus the man the human but not the God Mohammed and Uthman got everything wrong because they follow their own vision not God's Revelation to follow the Revealed Book (Bible). You have to make sense of your quran or else it will be just another Arabian Nights book.
I just like to add, that the verses in the Quran are stand alone have very little continuity that is why quranic verses 5:47 -48, 10:94 are clear cut, God telling Mohammed and Muslims to ask the people of the book (Bible). the Revealed Book = Bible. Jews do not worship Jesus Christ; Jews were the ones who had Jesus crucified because they accuse Jesus of blasphemy, Jesus refuse to say he is not God or Son of God for that he was crucified, Mohammed got it all wrong because he failed to obey God's command to ASK and CONFORM with the Revealed Book (Bible), Sura 10:94, 5:47 -48, Sura 2:121 Those to whom We have sent the Book (Bible) study it as it should be studied.
Response: To the contrary, the verse is not easily misunderstood, for it is written in simple and clear english. John 20:17 clearly says that Jesus did not ascend to God, therefore proving that he was not crucified and did not die.
Response: The Bible is clear when it states that Jesus did not ascend to God, thus proving that he was neither killed or crucified in John 20:17. Debunked as usual by your own bible.
You have debunk yourself again, truly demonstrating and I hope you are the only Muslim like that, that truly can not and do not know how to read the Bible and the Quran. It is clear John 20:17 Jesus did not die because He is God and He was not crucified because He is God sura [4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him—they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him. And Jesus resurrected because He is God; [4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise And your quran is wrong and contradictory, Isa did not testify to Caiphas and Pilate that he is not the Son of God because he is. Isa's substitute did not deny he is not the Son of God too he took all the punishment and accepted the verdict against him guilty of blasphemy for refusing to say he is not the son of God. Mohammed and your quran by saying Isa was not crucified accepted the historical event that a man name Jesus of Nazareth was crucified because he claim to be God thus Mohammed and your quran recognize the historical trial of Jesus Christ.
I was about to warn you, in case you didn't notice Fatihah can't read he or she can only read John 20:17
Response: No verse in the entire bible does Jesus claim to be God or worship him, thus proving from your own Bible that Jesus is not God. Furthermore, Acts 2:22 clearly states that Jesus is a man approved of God, not God himself. Debunked by your own Bible. Thus your own Bible is proof that Jesus did not die or was crucified further supports the fact that the Qur'an is correct in stating that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. Debunked as usual.
Response: To the contrary, unlike you, us reasonable people can read and comprehend the simple basic english in John 20:17 without reading a completly different chapter or verse. We don't have to read an entire news paper or article just to comprehend the words in the title of the paper.
Finally move to another Bible verse, again you need to read the whole Gospel not just one single verse, you won't be able to understand the Bible or any simple book if you read like that. I guess I was wrong, back to John 20:17, okay let us stay at John 20:17; Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. No where in John 20:17 that say Jesus was crucified. Jesus told Mary or her not to touch him because He has not yet ascended and then that phrase was follow with ":" then Jesus continue, he instructed her to go to Jesus's brethen and tell them that He ascend. So, you see you debunk yourself Jesus did ascend the gospel is very clear. Now don't tell me it didn't say I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER because if you argue it is not said then you have just prove to yourself that you can't understand simple English. Plus; I guess your silence on 4:157 -158 means you agree that Isa is Son of God, thank you. It is clear John 20:17 Jesus did not die because He is God and He was not crucified because He is God sura [4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him—they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him. And Jesus resurrected because He is God and because the Jews refuse to recognize Jesus is God they have no knowledge that they could not kill him because he is God. [4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise And your quran is wrong and contradictory, Isa did not testify to Caiphas and Pilate that he is not the Son of God because he is Son of God. Isa's substitute did not deny he is not the Son of God too he took all the punishment and accepted the verdict against him guilty of blasphemy for refusing to say he is not the son of God he is acknowledging that Isa whom he is dying for is indeed Son of God. Mohammed and your quran by saying Isa was not crucified accepted the historical event that a man name Jesus of Nazareth was crucified because he claim to be God thus Mohammed and your quran recognize the historical trial of Jesus Christ.
Response: Another failed rebuttal by the deluded non-muslim. You state that John 20:17 says that Jesus did ascend to God because Jesus says "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father.." In other words, not only do you fail to prove that Jesus was crucified, but you fail to comprehend simple basic English. The words clearly say "say" unto them I ascend to the Father. It does not say that Jesus actually ascended. Debunked as usual. Whether he actully ascended or not is answered by the words preceeding, which clearly states ""I am not yet ascended to the Father". Thus the verse is clear proof that Jesus did not ascend, thus he did not die and was not crucified. Debunked as usual. As for my alleged "silence" to the rest of your argument, bringing up whether Jesus was God or whether the Qur'an is contradictory in a conversation about whether Jesus was crucified in the Bible is a clear strawman to distract from your weak rebuttals that Jesus was crucified according to the Bible. Thus your weak strawman will continue to be ignored. For if you were so confident in the argument, you would present it separately, not in a conversation that's not relevant. Debunked as usual.
Another failed debunker and rebuttal of the truth. You keep contradicting yourself, you say that nowhere John 20:17 say that Jesus was crucified, I agree with you and now you are saying again Jesus was not crucified?? Clearly you must have already figure that out no where in John 20:17 that said anything about Jesus crucifixion. You said Jesus has ascended and now you are saying He has not ascended! come on make up your mind. Jesus has not yet ascended when He was talking to her, after Jesus told her to go to His brethen "and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father" that was the time Jesus ascend to Heaven, oops no mention of Heaven excuse me, Jesus ascend to His Father. That is as simple English language that I believe you can understand. And thank you are agreeing with me that Isa is the Son of God because he never testify to Caiphas or to Pilate to deny he is not Son of God instead he send a look a like to die in his place with strict instruction not to admit to Caiphas and Pilate that he too is not the Son of God. Thank you for agreeing that Mohammed's statement sura [4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified himthey were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him. [4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise Mohammed was accepting or conforming with the historical records that a man name Jesus of Nazareth was crucified because he refused to say he is not the Son of God.
Response: Another failed rebuttal. For no where did I say that Jesus ascended, nor can you quote otherwise. Debunked. Then you say that John 20:17 says that Jesus ascended to heaven, yet the verse clearly says "for I have not yet ascended", thus debunking your claim again. Once again, your own bible proves that Jesus was not killed or crucified. And when we consider your persistance to bring up what the qur'an says in a debate about your own bible, such weak strawman's further support your denial to the fact that your own bible is proof that it is not the word or inspired word of God and that Jesus was not kiled or crucified. Debunked as usual.
It is very simple, the quran is nothing compare to the Bible, the Quran is a book that needs the Bible's approval in order for it to be legitimate that is why Muslims are turning to the Bible to find historical validity of Mecca, Kabaa and Mohammed and so far Muslims have failed to find any because they are not doing according to Allah's command; consult, ask and conform with the Christians and the Bible. Muslims can't even accept their own history or discoveries they reject their own Quran and prefer to use Uthman's Quran. Thanks to modern science the truth is slowly but surely being revealed, just like Allah have Revealed His Words in the Bible so will scientist soon discover more evidences that your quran is fake. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNdvsLh128Q&feature=player_embedded"]The Oldest Quranic Manuscripts - YouTube[/ame]
Response: Another failed rebuttal, for we know that the Bible is not the word or inspired word of God with its dozens of contradictions and discrepancies, while the qur'an has no discrepancy and is scientifically proven as the true word of Allah through the qur'an challenge. As for the video, you've done nothing but confirm that the qur'an was preserved, while any corruption to the text was rejected, unlike your bible. Debunked as usual.
Yours is missing some verses, dude: Where it used to be in the Qur'an Ubayy asked Zirr b. Hubais, 'How many verses do you recite in surat al Ahzab?' Zirr replied, 'Seventy-three verses.' Ubayy asked if that was all. 'I have seen it,' he said, 'when it was the same length as Baqara. It contained the words "The saikh and the saikha, when they fornicate, stone them outright, as an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is might, wise."' (p. 78-79, Ahmad b. al Husain al Baihaqi, "al Sunan al Kubra", 10 vols., Haiderabad, 1925-38/1344-57, vol. 8, pp. 210-11) Ubayy said, 'It used to equal the length surat al Baqara and we used to recite in Ahzab the stoning verse.' Zirr asked, 'What is the stoning verse?' Ubayy recited, 'If the saikh and the saikha fornicate, stone them outright as an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is might, wise.' (p. 80, Jalal al Din `Abdul Rahman b. abi Bakr al Suyuti, "al Itqan fi `ulum al Qur'an", Halabi, Cairo, 1935/1354, pt 2, p. 25) *** This Sura must have been similar in length than that of the Baqara of 286 but ended being one of 73 only. (http://inthenameofallah.org/Missing Verses of the Quran.html) So how can the Qu'ran be complete if we're missing 213 verses in one chapter? Pot, meet kettle.
Response: The qur'an itself answers your question in chapter 2:106 of the qur'an. There are many verses that are not included in the final preserved revelation of the Qur'an as ordered by Allah. Thus the qur'an is complete and missing no chapter or verses. Debunked as usual.
See, very contradictory, first you said everything is in the quran and now you are saying they are not because "Alllah" or do you mean Mohammed ordered it not to be included because he does not know. How can an incomplete book be complete Because it is the book of Mohammed and Uthman not of Allah.
Response: Yet your inability to quote any post of mine saying that everything is in the Qur'an proves otherwise, thus debunking your weak strawman and failing to disprove the fact tgat the qur'an is the true word of Allah.
What is there to quote, you already said it your quran is incomplete Originally Posted by Fatihah Response: The qur'an itself answers your question in chapter 2:106 of the qur'an. There are many verses that are not included in the final preserved revelation of the Qur'an as ordered by Allah. Thus the qur'an is complete and missing no chapter or verses. Debunked as usual. How can it be complete when there are verses not included You can't even understand your own quran plus you are stun-stucked at John 20:17 You see, I got you check mate check mate in the Bible and check mate with the Quran.
Response: Another failed rebuttal. For the definition of incomplete is not "not included", thus debunking your idiotic that because the qur'an did not incude verses, it is incomplete. The definition of incomplete is to miss any necessary parts. The verses that were left out were done so on the authority of Allah, thus they were not necessary and not needed to complete the Qur'an. So the fact that they are left out is not proof that the Qur'an is not complete. Debunked as usual. Another weak rebuttal that fails again in disproving that the qur'an is the true word of Allah, while the Bible contains many degrading texts and discrepancies as proof that it is not the word or inspired word of God.
That is what you said, not according to the Quran, I will give more credit to the Quran that it is incomplete. You are putting words into the Quran corrupting it just like how Mohammed and Uthman corrupted God's "Recitation" (Quran) and debunking the words of God.
Response: Another failed rebuttal, as I never stated that the qur'an was incomplete, nor can you quote and prove otherwise, while your weak attempt to demonstrate so was debunked by the fact that the very definition of incomplete is not "not included" as you falsely implied. Debunked as usual. Another weak rebuttal that fails again in disproving that the qur'an is the true word of Allah, while the Bible contains many degrading texts and discrepancies as proof that it is not the word or inspired word of God.
Sorry, you got checkmate again Everything are not included in your standard that is why it is incomplete, check mate. The Bible is so complete that is why you refuse to read it all and stick with John 20:17 isolating, splitting other verses because you are reading the Bible according to your standard of reading an incomplete book called Quran, check mate again.
How about the claim that a person is produced from a liqued emitting from between the backbone and the ribs (and not the testes, and with no mention of an ovum)? Or any of this http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur'an
