Socialists surge ahead in France -- a runoff is ahead!

You didn't need a degree in economics or political science to see this coming: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17806398

This insight gives a good idea of what it might be like, soon, if the Socialists win the runoff: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...Zjd6LQ?docId=c31d13b41ff84b21b6dd388468c04639

This is just the beginning! Look for various Socialist factions to take control soon in Greece, Spain, Italy, and other European countries. A large percentage of the populations of these countries have been sucking on their respective governments' "sugar-teats" since the end of World War II... you didn't need a crystal ball to see that they wouldn't exactly welcome harsh, new austerity measures. If Europe does indeed go "hard-core" Socialist, within three years there will be massive debt-repudiation on a scale never dreamed of before. Try to prepare, although there isn't really a hell of a lot that any of us can do....

 

Good. Maybe it will spell the end of Thatcherism.

 

I have mixed feeling about this. I lean towards many of the economic aspects of socialism. So in one way I hope that the socialists can get elected in more countries. The progressives just are not addressing poverty, and lack of opportunity, and something needs to be done. But I also worry about the ethnic aspects of the socialists. If a socialist government is going to mean more immigration, I would have to be against it. But at least socialism could punish the conservatives (particularly the business owners) for letting in so many immigrants and exploiting them, just to weaken the workers unions. If we do have to live in ethnically diverse nations, perhaps better to live under socialism than under an economically oppressive system with so much poverty, although this would certainly not be my preferred choice.

This may seem paradoxical, but Marine le Pen, leader of the "far right" party, would be my other preferred choice.
It is just like during the world-wide Depression, when the rising levels of unemployment led to the growth of "far right" and "far left" parties- the Nationalists and Communists. I just hope the conservatives and progressives lose influence. Perhaps I am just "radicalised" but cannot make up my mind which way!

 

Its ok the Socialist Party is not revolutionary in any way ,about to be tested and exposed as the capitialist Party that it is ,but as you say the Class polarisation is very advanced as the extreme right-wing Le pen got 20% indicating sections of the middle Class shifting to the Right as the Working Class goes to the Left ,all in the nation of revolutionary tradition in europe France.

the debt should be defaulted on and the Bankers and Capitilists Forced to pay Their debt ,They accumulated it they gourged themselves for 20 years,the Working class has no responsibility for any part of the government debt why becuse Workers always Pay their taxs.where as Coporations rarely do and the Banks well NEVER.

But the employers pay the Taxation to the Government of Workers ,every euro.If the Management of the Economy under capitialism isn't up to the job ,then the working Class has no intrest in continuing more of the Same .

Meanwhile the next GFC tidal wave is building ,spain ,Italy and Portugal NEXT to go the way of greece.

Ps when will the recovery start its been 4years and counting.?

Viva le Revolution .Oh goody the revolutionary traditions of france are being ignited.

Fear is gripping the Bourgeoisie.The Middle clas is running around like chicken beheaded .

And the Working Class is waking from the decades of slumber and the drug called Social Reform ,back to the revolutionary road .Its about the Working Class and what it does that counts.

 

Chancellor Merkel has been hoping that this wouldn't happen, but now it is. France was the only ally that Germany had in this Euro mess. I can't feel too bad for Germany because they voted to get themselves in this Eurozone crap and now they are going to have to live with it. Actually it's a kind of justice because the big German bankers and capitalists are going to get SCREWED by France, Spain, Italy, and all the rest of their Eurozone "partners".

 

Well, one thing is for sure.

If large scale debt repudiation occurs, the Euro won't last much longer.

We could see a return to the individual national currencies of Europe.

 

I had not heard that Hollande was arguing for debt repudiation?

 

This isn't about any "sugar teat" whatsoever.

Let us take Belgium: we have an immigrant, homosexual, socialist prime minister...

We imposed austerity in our country -- about EUR 12 Billion on a matter of 3 years -- fixed. To bring the budget back into balance. Additional measures will be taken if neccessary...

Meanwhile in the Netherlands -- ruled by a right to extreme-right cabinet, the government just fell over austerity in the scope of around EUR 16 Billion (despite it having +50% more inhabitants). The Right => Fails once again.

Besides, you have proven to have a very short memory span, or to have no command of history whatsoever...

The 70's, '80s and early 90's weren't so swell either. We had "crisis taxes" and all of that -- to be able to bring the debt and deficits down.

You come here, completely ignorant, trying to claim that Socialits or Social-Democrats are somehow "iresponsible" people. Sorry bro, but that myth was helped out of the world as early as 1914-1918. You are lagging behind almost a century... good job.

 

?

Stop being such a drama queen. It isn't your style, Serfin'USA.

The reason why Socialits are gaining ground again are, well let me give you two examples of the last two weeks in Belgium:

1° The Minister Of Economy (Social-Democrat) decided to introduce a law into parliament that would "freeze" the energy prices (solely: electricity and natural gas). In Belgium we know a system of so-called "index coupling". So, when the price of petroleum went up on the market, the energy companies would be able to raise their prices for electricity and natural gas automatically to the clients. Finally the government decided to stop such absurdity: it isn't because the price of apples go up, the prices of oranges should follow as well... Anyways... the law would go into effect 1st April, so from that time the prices would have "been freezed" for the rest of the year... What did the largest Belgian energy company do? They raised their prices with about 5% on the 31st of March! You also need to know that one of the reason the law was introduced in the first place is because energy is way more expensive in Belgium than in our neighbouring countries (like +30%). All hell broke loose, and now thousands a day of clients are switching from supplier. Indeed, a Socialist-inspired law made the free market work (by breaking the monopoly of the biggest energy supplier ~ a lot of seniors don't want to leave "den Electrabel". It is the former nationalized, and only, supplier of energy for about, ever).


2° Adecco. You know the company, I assume. Well, the CEO of the Belgian department (who earns EUR 3,5 million/year) went speaking on TV and in front of a group of bussiness leaders and started jamming that "the average man earns to much". He pointed to our system of our 13th and 14th months we get paid (although this depends on the employer, so it is not a written law or something). Hello? The guy earns in a year what all of us don't even make in an entire lifetime. Are you kidding me? What is this? Some sort of black comedy? Complete disconnect... and complete outrage in all parts of civil society (on the right, on the left, economists, business leaders, the unions, opinionmakers, politicians, etc.).

=> In short: people see the greed and egoism of certain aspects of society more clearly now, I believe.

 

He isn't...

Just American ignorance at work.

 

That would be good. Europe is a political construct which is far, far less interesting than the sum of its parts.


" Socialism is love " an ardent socialist once told me. What's to be scared of ?

 

All I'm saying is that debt repudiation is not a good thing if solvency is your goal. I wasn't suggesting that Socialists in France are looking to do that.

 

I would agree, although it still appears that the majority of Europeans support maintaining the EU and Euro.

Personally, I like the UK's approach in that they kept their own currency.

 

Yes, they're an island people, good at playing off one opponent against another. Icelandics are like that.

 

The problem with this american over reaction to 'socialism' on this forum.

The alternative is even worse. From the obsessed free marketeers who want raw capitalism and any social policies, are shouted down in confused anger.

But ask yourself, where should societies money go to? Helping the people or as previously going on. Given to the banking sector while they give themselves payrises.

 

I could never figure out why the Germans dropped the Mark and went for the Euro. They have the strongest economy in Europe and had a very strong currency but now they still have a good economy but have a crap currency that they are having to bail out whilst also bailing out a few countries with huge debt problems. If I was a German I would be well peeved.

 

Well, Iceland was good at that until they made the mistake of trusting German, American, and British bankers. Now, they're kind of screwed.

 

Uhm,...

I really don't know where this fairy tale comes from that the Euro is somehow a weak currency.

It it isn't -- in fact, it is the complete reverse... just check the numbers. And ask any fair-minded economist and he will tell you the same...

Despite all the doom in the Anglo-American press, the Euro is stronger than ever before. In fact, I believe it is too strong -- I want a weaker currency (= + export).

 

Germany could not maintain its massive export surplus if it had its own currency. Joining the euro was the best move they ever made.

 

Ideally, we'd have a situation where banks would never receive bailouts.

Unfortunately, we're at a point where the best route might have been nationalizing the banks. Of course, a lot of people here would completely flip their (*)(*)(*)(*) if we did that.

 

The pound seems stronger at this point though.

 

Compared to the Mark it is not that strong. It is actually in a lot of trouble,the EU is in a lot of trouble. It is a possibility that it will not survive in its present state.

 

How so?

 

What "Mark?". You mean the one that existed prior to the EURO?

 

Germany benefits from the weak euro it makes its exports artificially cheap, the euro is an aggregate of 17 economies many of them far weaker than Germany.

If it was on the mark its net exports would begin to return to the equilibrium of 0, it is in a currency union without which it could not maintain its year on year growth.

With the US the problem is reversed the currency is artificially expensive as the dollar is the worlds reserve currency allowing it to run huge import surpluses.

EDIT looking for link to explain more clearly.